The PLAN

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

When you think American ingenuity and production you think.....???

Apple. but production is oversees.

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I dont care if this came from Obama or Reagan. This will not work. But there isnt anything Obama, Romney or anyone else can do.

So should they just sit back and do nothing?

Your company might not hire anyone or forecast on this alone, but my friend who has a small (5 employees) business (Metal refining) might decide to hire someone and expand his production if there is some incentive.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Your company might not hire anyone or forecast on this alone, but my friend who has a small (5 employees) business (Metal refining) might decide to hire someone and expand his production if there is some incentive.

if he had a need to expand his production, he would already be hiring...if he isn't hiring it is because there is no need to expand his production, no increased demand and it makes no sense to add employees, if he gets a tax credit to add employees that really aren't needed because the demand isn't there he's stuck with the overall cost of new hires, bad business model...do you think a tax credit to add employees is magically going to increase demand to support the expense of these new employees? maybe we need a purchasing tax credit for his buyers to purchase more to increase his demand to support the new employees that he will add as a result of the hiring tax credit????

you don't hire unless there is work to do...the left views a "job" as an entitlement and a guarantee with perks that someone is just supposed to provide for you regardless of whether or not you are really needed(see any union dominated workplace) and continue to provide for you even after you stop working....having actual work to do-that's the incentive to hire...not a tax credit from the federal goverment.......there's nothing that govenment can do to "make" companies hire more people....


NY Times
Employers Say Jobs Plan Won’t Lead to Hiring Spur
Published: Saturday, 10 Sep 2011
Motoko Rich


The dismal state of the economy is the main reason many companies are reluctant to hire workers, and few executives are saying that President Obama’s jobs plan — while welcomed — will change their minds any time soon.

That sentiment was echoed across numerous industries by executives in companies big and small on Friday, underscoring the challenge for the Obama administration as it tries to encourage hiring and perk up the moribund economy.

[striperman36]

No hiring but record profits, just wonderful,

[scottw]

Originally Posted by striperman36

No hiring but record profits, just wonderful,

NYT
This breakneck pace can be partly attributed to strong productivity growth — which means companies have been able to make more with less — as well as the fact that some of the profits of American companies come from abroad. Economic conditions in the United States may still be sluggish, but many emerging markets like India and China are expanding rapidly.

again, why would you hire employees that you don't need? in any business???

if you can fill current demands with X number of employees...is a tax credit going to incentivize you to increase your number of employees to X+10 to fill the same demand????? or are you assuming that demand automatically increases with an increase in employees.....or is hiring just the patriotic thing to do?

[striperman36]

Exactly, fortunately there'll always be a demand for IT people, even if they pay significantly less for more hours.

[spence]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Exactly, fortunately there'll always be a demand for IT people, even if they pay significantly less for more hours.

Your biggest fear should be the Cloud.

With defense spending certainly to decline, program rationalization will be a very hot topic on the floor of Congress. IT will be in the cross hairs as contractors try to shift their spend towards retaining specialized talent critical to rapid project completion.

Be thankful for that little bit of US Government regulatory oppression called ITAR. It's perhaps your trump card to not get outsourced!

-spence

[striperman36]

no DoD 8510 is the trump card.

Been doing cloud since 2006 or even early when it was called ASP's in 96. Also doing large private clouds with rapid provisioning, still very complicated to set up, have 2 large engagements underway, one DoD the other Agency.

It's more complicated than you think it is, it's not all pre-built. You gotta get to it (the cloud) and requires (or should) more security than private cloud.
Also you have to transition stuff (apps, data, users, management)

Nice buzz word but totally bogus when it comes to some of the implied benefits unless done right.

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

NYT
This breakneck pace can be partly attributed to strong productivity growth — which means companies have been able to make more with less — as well as the fact that some of the profits of American companies come from abroad. Economic conditions in the United States may still be sluggish, but many emerging markets like India and China are expanding rapidly.

again, why would you hire employees that you don't need? in any business???

if you can fill current demands with X number of employees...is a tax credit going to incentivize you to increase your number of employees to X+10 to fill the same demand????? or are you assuming that demand automatically increases with an increase in employees.....or is hiring just the patriotic thing to do?

It's an incentive to increase innovative behavior.

Basically, you can't automate everything and usually automation requires an existing and proven process.

If I'm trying to invent a new product or revolutionary manufacturing process the additional labor burden required is a large part of the overall investment. If the investment costs are too high relative to the benefits I won't take the risk.

Many companies today are still profitable because they've cut their cost structures to the bone, but their people don't have the bandwidth for anything other than short-term profit motivated work. Sure, they can produce today's product more efficiently, but are they prepared to compete 5 or 10 years down the road?

The bottom line is that people are the lifeblood of any innovative organization.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

It's an incentive to increase innovative behavior. that is hilarious

The bottom line is that people are the lifeblood of any innovative organization.

-spence

if that were true ....government would be incredibly innovative, efficient, productive and cost effective with all of those people

there seem to be plenty of government chosen "innovative" exploits recently that were subsidized with "incentives to increase innovation" and subsequently couldn't find demand(Volt) or couldn't compete in the marketplace(Solyndra)....

business will innovate just fine on their own and as they see fit...don't need Obaba giving pointers....

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

if that were true ....government would be incredibly innovative, efficient, productive and cost effective with all of those people

The majority of Government jobs are transactional.

there seem to be plenty of government chosen "innovative" exploits recently that were subsidized with "incentives to increase innovation" and subsequently couldn't find demand(Volt) or couldn't compete in the marketplace(Solyndra)....

These are different scenarios.

business will innovate just fine on their own and as they see fit...don't need Obaba giving pointers....

As usual you're pretty much missing the point completely. This isn't a situation where the government is dictating anything, just helping to defray a little risk as an incentive.

-spence