Why can't teachers/cops live with 401(k)'s instead of pensions?

[RIJIMMY]

likwid, your argument is basically that "we the people" have no say in what our governments spend $ on or how much we pay?
If taxes get to be to much, is that we dont live within our means?
I dont know you but I can pretty much conclude that you're single and dont have kids. Expenses, such as taxes, take on a different meaning once you have financial decisions that impact others.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I can pretty much conclude that you're single and dont have kids. Expenses, such as taxes, take on a different meaning once you have financial decisions that impact others.

That, or he is a member of a public union, or he is married to someone who is...or he's successful enough to not have to worry about these debt levels that will soon have a crushing impact on everyone who's not a millionaire.

[Fly Rod]

Confucious say, he/she who complains about what the other worker gets in their benifit package, has to much free time.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Confucious say, he/she who complains about what the other worker gets in their benifit package, has to much free time.

You see Fly Rod, I complain because the more they get, the less I have to spend on my kids. At my company, if I reward myself with a fat pension, you (the customer) has the choice to buy my product, or get it somewhere cheaper if you want. You have that choice. Public unions give themselves whatever they want, and then just take it from the rest of us with force of law. It's not nearly the same thing as what happens in the private sector, it's not nearly fair, and it's about to implode.

Again, take the cowardly way out, avoid answering a tough but fair question, and insult the person asking the question. I don't get why someone like you reads this forum, if all you do is insult people instead of offering thoughtful responses to probing questions.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I don't get why someone like you reads this forum, if all you do is insult people instead of offering thoughtful responses to probing questions.

I, personally, don't get why somebody comes to a Fishing Website just to argue Politics. But, To each his Own

[scottw]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I, personally, don't get why somebody comes to a Fishing Website just to argue Politics. But, To each his Own

that was good!

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

I, personally, don't get why somebody comes to a Fishing Website just to argue Politics. But, To each his Own

It's the political discussion forum, correct?

[JohnR]

Nothing to see here folks.

If the needs of others have raised all of your fees, created some new ones, increased your taxes, jacked up your health care costs, doubled your utilities (and added more fees), clearly you are living beyond your means.

What? You got laid off? Had to start at 35% less than what you made before? Clearly you are living beyond your means.

Need to cut back your expenses? No, you just go out and get a job that pays better. What? No jobs? Well, pick up a second. Clearly, you are living beyond your means.



Aye carumba. I just got my W2s. It has taken me 8 years to get to within 85% of the dollar figure (forget about inflation) I made in 2002. In those intervening 8 years I've constantly had to cut to live within my means yet I have paid more and more so others did not need to worry about their means because their means are not negotiable.

And I won't pick specifically on the public sector unions - a lot of them DO bust their a$$es. But the politicians elected have been doing a pees poor job of living within their means.

We as a nation are doing an awful job of living within our means, yet we continue to borrow and spend more and more, well beyond our means.

Hmmm. Wonder where this leads ?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Hmmm. Wonder where this leads ?

speaking Chinese Rosetta Stone anyone?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Nothing to see here folks.

If the needs of others have raised all of your fees, created some new ones, increased your taxes, jacked up your health care costs, doubled your utilities (and added more fees), clearly you are living beyond your means.

What? You got laid off? Had to start at 35% less than what you made before? Clearly you are living beyond your means.

Need to cut back your expenses? No, you just go out and get a job that pays better. What? No jobs? Well, pick up a second. Clearly, you are living beyond your means.



Aye carumba. I just got my W2s. It has taken me 8 years to get to within 85% of the dollar figure (forget about inflation) I made in 2002. In those intervening 8 years I've constantly had to cut to live within my means yet I have paid more and more so others did not need to worry about their means because their means are not negotiable.

And I won't pick specifically on the public sector unions - a lot of them DO bust their a$$es. But the politicians elected have been doing a pees poor job of living within their means.

We as a nation are doing an awful job of living within our means, yet we continue to borrow and spend more and more, well beyond our means.

Hmmm. Wonder where this leads ?

"Nothing to see here folks."

Yes there is somehitng to see, because somehow likwid and chesepeake Bill don't get it.

"I've constantly had to cut to live within my means yet I have paid more and more so others did not need to worry about their means because their means are not negotiable. "

Very well said. The crazy part is, these union members will tell you of the awful sacrifices they've made to keep spending where it is.

"And I won't pick specifically on the public sector unions - a lot of them DO bust their a$$es."

I agree many work hard. But the fact is, those unions have made demands on the public they serve, which are unreasonable. Look at how underfunded those benefit plans are...doesn't that prove that the promises made were stupid?

Union benefits are a much bigger debt item than politician salaries.

[scottw]

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;Union benefits are a much bigger debt item than politician salaries.[/QUOTE]

union benefits were "purchased" through and as political graft....the union members represent an organized, easily mobilized voting block and politicians have paid for that support at election time using public money and promises in the form of contracts, perks and pensions promises for a very long time...we are paying their salaries with borrowed money, we borrowed a fortune to "save" their jobs and creat work with the stimulus(BORROWED MONEY) and their pensions unfunded are paid with borrowed money....PLUS INTEREST!!!!! WOW

I think they'll get a nice "injection" with unspent stimulus funds prior to the next election

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

likwid, your argument is basically that "we the people" have no say in what our governments spend $ on or how much we pay?
If taxes get to be to much, is that we dont live within our means?
I dont know you but I can pretty much conclude that you're single and dont have kids. Expenses, such as taxes, take on a different meaning once you have financial decisions that impact others.

Having/not having kids is a personal choice that all should consider before putting themselves in that position for the next 18-23 years.

Why exactly should a cop/teacher/whatever have to suffer for other people's decisions?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by likwid

Having/not having kids is a personal choice that all should consider before putting themselves in that position for the next 18-23 years.

Why exactly should a cop/teacher/whatever have to suffer for other people's decisions?

26...we've redefined "childhood" to age 26 now and 27 in Indiana I think....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

Why exactly should a cop/teacher/whatever have to suffer for other people's decisions?

You're clueless, you just don't get it.

The cop/teacher makes demands that bankrupt most states in the country, and you're saying the cop and teacher are suffering?

What "suffering"? I'm asking the cop and the teacher to live with the same benefits available to those that pay taxes. Why is that "suffering"? I sure don't feel like I'm suffering with my 401(k), so why is it inhuman to ask people who work for me, to live with the same benefits? Why are they special?

Never mind, I know you won't try to answer, you never do...

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by likwid

Having/not having kids is a personal choice that all should consider before putting themselves in that position for the next 18-23 years.

Why exactly should a cop/teacher/whatever have to suffer for other people's decisions?

I agree, but kids change your outlook and what you pay. What I pay monthly for daycare would pay 99% of most peoples mortgage. Tack on increased taxes, when does it become financially not worth it for me or my wife to work? You may think Im kidding, but my wife and I have had this discussion many, many times. I have done hypothetical calculations with the main variable - our taxes. Do we want to have a country where prosperous people cant afford to work? I dont expect anyone to pay a dime for my kids, but news flash most of the people who you side with politically DO.


Why should a teacher or cop suffer from others decisions? Kind of silly question, no? I suffer from my boss's decisions. I suffer from my coworkers decisions. I can leave at any time. A teacher or cop should suffer OR benefit from others decisions too. There needs to be fiscal responsibility and we - you and me, are the bosses, we pay the bills. If teachers or cops dont like the benefits or pay, they can pursue other careers. the market should be defining wages and benefits.