Why can't teachers/cops live with 401(k)'s instead of pensions?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Its www.Striped-bass.com.....correct

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Its Striped-Bass Fishing | Striper Fishing.....correct

Dad, if it makes it more palatable to you, I'll re-phrase.

The last time I owned a fishing boat was a 20 foot Key West center console which I loved. Paired with an E-tec 130. One day my son and I were casting eels with custom rods made by J&B tackle in Niantic, matched with spinning reels and 14 pound braid, along Fishers Island, NY. I noticed my neighbor who is a public schoolteacher, married to another pubilc schoolteacher, and he is in a 27 foot grady white center console.

My boy asked me why we couldn't afford a boat that sweet, and I said "well son, since I'm not in a public union, I have to put $15k a year into my 401(k). If I had a pension instead, my financial security in retirement would be everybody else's problem except my own, and in that case, we could put that money towards our dream boat." At this time, we were near Isabella beach at high tide, and the fishing was picking up.

He asked me "why don't you have a pension?" as he landed a nice schoolie.

As I removed the size 5/0 Gamagatsu circle hook, I said "because they are too expensive to ask our customers to pay for". As the tide slackened, we moved to the Race and trolled umbrella rigs with wire line. We let out 300 feet of wire to get below the cocktail blues that were down to 10 feet or so.

So he said "so why do teachers get pensions then. I'm only 4 years old, but even I see that it doesn't seem fair".

On the way in, we stopped at the warm water discharge at Millstone Power Plant and hooked up with some albies. "Son, I said, you're right, it's not fair, and not only that, it is bankrupting our entire country. When you get a paper route in 5 years, they'll put you in the 75% income tax bracket to pay for all this spending".

While cleaning the boat afterwards with Colinite boat cleaner (which works great when paired with Colinite wax), he said "gee Dad, it seems selfish for public unionized employees to place such a significant tax burden on the public that they claim to serve. If we can all live with 401(k)'s, why can't they?"

We grilled the stripers with lemon, garlic, onions, and pepper.

Other than the spot burning, is that framed better?

[scottw]

that was really good!

"I'm 4 years old and even I can understand that" heh...heh

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

that was really good!

"I'm 4 years old and even I can understand that" heh...heh

You post the stats that say that the retirement benefits alone are underfunded by $8,333 per person.

I ask if that doesn't suggest that the current benefits are too rich.

For responses, I get...

"why didn't you go into teaching"

"what do you care what someone else gets"

"seems like you're just jealous" (which I guess I am)

I just want someone to tell me why it's not unfair and reckless...

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You post the stats that say that the retirement benefits alone are underfunded by $8,333 per person.

I ask if that doesn't suggest that the current benefits are too rich.

For responses, I get...

"why didn't you go into teaching"

"what do you care what someone else gets"

"seems like you're just jealous" (which I guess I am)

I just want someone to tell me why it's not unfair and reckless...

You forgot two questions...
How many town meetings have you gone to to get answers to why there is a 4% increase this year?
And I'm still waiting to hear what the 4% increase was for and by how many students there are this year compared to last year?

Just out of curiosity, does your company give you a cost of living pay increase every year? Most do.

And your story, while cute, leaves alot open.
How long did they save for the boat?
Do you know exactly how much were paid per year?
Do you know if any family members died and left them some money?
Do they play the market?
Does one of them have a trust fund?

Judging others by material posessions is very shallow of you.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by likwid

Just out of curiosity, does your company give you a cost of living pay increase every year? Most do

.

Most do? Really. I guess you have not heard of the great economic downturn that taken place the last few years? Have you seen the unemplyment rates? Seen the decline in personal incomes?
Most companies are slashing expenses, many have stopped 401k match, stopped bonuses. Towns should too, do you get it now?

[likwid]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Most do? Really. I guess you have not heard of the great economic downturn that taken place the last few years? Have you seen the unemplyment rates? Seen the decline in personal incomes?

Pssst, there are companies that are excelling right now! I know, crazytalk. But its happening.

Most companies are slashing expenses, many have stopped 401k match, stopped bonuses. Towns should too, do you get it now?

Most?
Have any evidence to back this up? Or is it just speculation based on media hoodoo?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by likwid

You forgot two questions...
And your story, while cute, leaves alot open.
How long did they save for the boat?
Do you know exactly how much were paid per year?
Do you know if any family members died and left them some money?
Do they play the market?
Does one of them have a trust fund?

Judging others by material posessions is very shallow of you.

in your little story about joebob you didn't provide many specifics about his particular situation and you didn't seem to think twice about kicking the crap out of him and calling him a hypocrit

"Why hasn't joe bob looked for a better job?
Why hasn't joe bob bettered himself (whether it be via schooling or some other means) in that 6 years to either get paid more or find a better job
Maybe he should stop complaining, stand up, and do something for himself for once instead of complaining about others?

"

yikes...maybe joebob has no legs, no trust fund, no inheritance, no windfall from the lottery or stock market, likes what he's doing and just wants to work hard and be left alone?

[likwid]

Originally Posted by scottw

yikes...maybe joebob has no legs, no trust fund, no inheritance, no windfall from the lottery or stock market, likes what he's doing and just wants to work hard and be left alone?

hey he wanted to go with the general story of the guy making 50k getting priced out of his neighborhood.

I also have to ask Jim in CT, why would someone tell their son that story? That someone else gets more than he does to their son? Do you hate your neighbor that much? Are you that jealous?

Why couldn't you teach a life lesson? That they work hard and saved up for the boat instead of teaching a distrust of teachers due to what they have. That they get a pension and they're "special".

Sure you could say its a lesson, but certainly not a positive one.

But hey, you wanna raise your kids that way, thats your right.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

You forgot two questions...
How many town meetings have you gone to to get answers to why there is a 4% increase this year?
And I'm still waiting to hear what the 4% increase was for and by how many students there are this year compared to last year?

Just out of curiosity, does your company give you a cost of living pay increase every year? Most do.

And your story, while cute, leaves alot open.
How long did they save for the boat?
Do you know exactly how much were paid per year?
Do you know if any family members died and left them some money?
Do they play the market?
Does one of them have a trust fund?

Judging others by material posessions is very shallow of you.

Can't you please answer my question that started this thread? I keep answering all your questions, you keep avoiding all of mine...

Is that unfair of me? I answer all your questions, and I'm asking you to answer one of mine. Too much to ask?

Likwid, I'm very comfortable. That doesn't mean that what public unionized employees are doing is right. Most folks aren't as lucky as me.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by likwid

Judging others by material posessions is very shallow of you.

Dodging my simple question is very cowardly of you.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Dodging my simple question is very cowardly of you.

Very classy!