Why can't teachers/cops live with 401(k)'s instead of pensions?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Chesapeake Bill

Zimmy and Scott,

You both missed Jim's point. He thinks you should get a decent wage but no benefits so you only have to eat cat food after you retire and are are forced to leave for more affordable housing elsewhere. Of course, the void created by your departure would immediately be filled by some other teacher with S&M tendencies who wants to be treated just as bad.

After all, he was a public servant (NOT!!!) and they did the same to him. Unlike his statement, Military service does not make him a public servant...it makes him a veteran (like me). This discussion is about civil service so I suggest he keep to the point. At no time has anyone lumped military benefits in with the discussion about civil servants. Unless he is willing to make more concessions that afford mothly death benefits to spouses of lost fireman and police he should stop trying to claim something he is not.

Bill, yuo said this...

"He thinks you should get a decent wage but no benefits so you only have to eat cat food after you retire "

I guess you can't read very well, because that's not even CLOSE to anything I said. I think teachers should have benefits that resemble what's available to the public which they claim to serve. Namely, 401(k)'s instead of pensions. If I ask teachers to live with the same benefits that those who pay their salaries (taxpayers) have to live on, why is that unreasonable? Can you plkease answer that, instead of putting extremist words in my mouth?

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Bill, yuo said this...

"He thinks you should get a decent wage but no benefits so you only have to eat cat food after you retire "

I guess you can't read very well, because that's not even CLOSE to anything I said. I think teachers should have benefits that resemble what's available to the public which they claim to serve. Namely, 401(k)'s instead of pensions. If I ask teachers to live with the same benefits that those who pay their salaries (taxpayers) have to live on, why is that unreasonable? Can you plkease answer that, instead of putting extremist words in my mouth?

I work for a corporation, I have both a pension, and a 401k, so it is still attainable to people not employed by the government... BTW Management also had same until their pensions were frozen a few years ago.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

I work for a corporation, I have both a pension, and a 401k, so it is still attainable to people not employed by the government... BTW Management also had same until their pensions were frozen a few years ago.

Less than 1 in 5 non-unionized employees still get a pension.

And in the private sector, that's fine, because your customers can freely choose whether or not they are willing to have that cost passed onto them. You don't get to seize my house if I don't want to absorb that cost.

Public unionized employees get to do just that.

[Fly Rod]

I know how all you guys feel out there feeling that you have been cheated and paying more taxes and all.

Here I am on social security and my cost of living has been cut for the next two years because of your president. We were suppose to get a 5.8% pay raise, that is a little more then 500 bucks per year, "GONE."

And your ranting over and over about something meaningless that you are never going to solve. I'm surprised that some of you do not have sore finger tips from your long responses.

RANT! RANT! RANT!

[scottw]

JANUARY 15, 2011

Detroit and Decay

The city may abandon half its schools to pay union benefits
Detroit was once America's fourth largest city, though today large sections of its inner core are abandoned to the elements, and monuments like Michigan Central Station are returning to dust. Another emblem of civic decline is a plan to desert nearly half of Detroit's public schools so that it can afford to fulfill its teachers union contract.

The school district is facing a $327 million deficit and has already closed 59 schools over the last two years to avoid paying maintenance, utility and operating costs

Under the emergency plan, consolidated high-school class sizes would increase to 62 by 2014, “consistent with what students would expect in large university settings.” Yet under the terms of the Detroit Federation of Teachers contract, the district must pay bonuses for class enrollment over 35, thus imposing some $11.1 million in new costs through 2014.

“Additional savings of approximately $12.4 million can be achieved from school closures if the District simply abandons the closed buildings,” the proposal explains, purging costs like boarding up buildings, storage and security patrols.

Steven Wasko, a spokesman for Mr. Bobb, said that urban property sales have been difficult, in part because until recently the state board of education banned transactions with “competing educational institutions” like charter schools. Once buildings are deserted, even if the doors and windows are welded shut with protective metal covers, scavengers break in and dismantle them for copper wire, pipes and so on.

they deserve a bailout