Health insurance

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

JD's record is broken...

look at it this way, if we hadn't gone into Iraq..Barak Hasan Obama could bitch in all of his speeches that Bush ignored the threat that Saddam posed for the last 8 years and now he has to deal with it rather than fixing the economy....I'm sure that UN sanctions would have been just as effective as removing Saddam, they are working just swimmingly with Iran

Iran hasn't really seen very harsh UN sanctions yet. Bush's complete lack of (disdain for really) diplomacy is still being felt.

Interesting to think that we were actually working together in Afghanistan after 9/11 before the "Axis of Evil" speech.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

Iran hasn't really seen very harsh UN sanctions yet. Bush's complete lack of (disdain for really) diplomacy is still being felt.

Interesting to think that we were actually working together in Afghanistan after 9/11 before the "Axis of Evil" speech.

-spence

Diplomacy in regards to Iran is only helping Iran create the time it needs to have a WMD. It's not working Spence, understand? Why don't we have tougher sanctions in place?
Hell Obama's done so much in his first year. I believe on all fronts, including home we were better off with Bush. Show me where I'm wrong.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by buckman

Diplomacy in regards to Iran is only helping Iran create the time it needs to have a WMD. It's not working Spence, understand? Why don't we have tougher sanctions in place?
Hell Obama's done so much in his first year. I believe on all fronts, including home we were better off with Bush. Show me where I'm wrong.

Why exactly is any of the above America's responsibility to fix? Iran having the bomb is significantly less dangerous than N. Korea having the bomb. It's, literally, not our problem. Iran having the bomb is probably less of a risk to the US than Pakistan - at least Iran has a legitimate.

Why don't we have tougher sanctions?
You tell me. Bush had since his declaration in 2002 of Iran being part of the Axis of Evil to get sanctions in place.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

.

Why don't we have tougher sanctions?
You tell me. Bush had since his declaration in 2002 of Iran being part of the Axis of Evil to get sanctions in place.

Bush was working on his Nobel Peace prize

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Bush had since his declaration in 2002 of Iran being part of the Axis of Evil to get sanctions in place.

so it was up to Bush to get UN sanctions in place???? was Bush blocking any proposed UN sanctions against Iran? maybe just the "really harsh" ones

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

so it was up to Bush to get UN sanctions in place???? was Bush blocking any proposed UN sanctions against Iran? maybe just the "really harsh" ones

Nope. But buckman's inferring that it is our President's job to get sanctions in place.

Bush and Blair couldn't get it done for the same reason Obama and Gordon Brown haven't be able to - the Chinese and Russians have too many financial interests in Iran and will veto proposed sanctions. Strong enough support from other members in the Security Council (and UN as a whole)needs to exist and they must step up and put pressure on the Chinese and Russians.

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Nope. But buckman's inferring that it is our President's job to get sanctions in place.

Bush and Blair couldn't get it done for the same reason Obama and Gordon Brown haven't be able to - the Chinese and Russians have too many financial interests in Iran and will veto proposed sanctions. Strong enough support from other members in the Security Council (and UN as a whole)needs to exist and they must step up and put pressure on the Chinese and Russians.

Don't worry JD, Bush looked into Putin's soul and he's a trusty fellow who I'm sure we share much common ground with.

Not sure what he saw when he looked at the Chinese people.

-spence

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Diplomacy in regards to Iran is only helping Iran create the time it needs to have a WMD. It's not working Spence, understand? Why don't we have tougher sanctions in place?
Hell Obama's done so much in his first year. I believe on all fronts, including home we were better off with Bush. Show me where I'm wrong.

What gave Iran the time to develop their nuke program was precisely a complete lack of diplomacy. Bush did his best to ignore Iran as he was occupied with Iraq. The inside scoop is even that Iran was so terrified of a US invasion after we bounced Saddam that they tried to reach out to us to get a dialogue going, but the Bush Admin would have none of it.

Now, many of the other global players have even deeper interests in Iran. Obama has inherited a very difficult situation, but it seems like he is pulling a unified front together with a real deadline looming very soon...if it's not too late.

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

What gave Iran the time to develop their nuke program was precisely a complete lack of diplomacy. Bush did his best to ignore Iran as he was occupied with Iraq. The inside scoop is even that Iran was so terrified of a US invasion after we bounced Saddam that they tried to reach out to us to get a dialogue going, but the Bush Admin would have none of it.

Now, many of the other global players have even deeper interests in Iran. Obama has inherited a very difficult situation, but it seems like he is pulling a unified front together with a real deadline looming very soon...if it's not too late.

-spence

Maybe you could give us " the inside scoop" as to what the looming deadline will entail.

[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Maybe you could give us " the inside scoop" as to what the looming deadline will entail.

This is very interesting...

Obama Prepares to Get Tough on Iran | Newsweek Politics | Newsweek.com

-spence

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

This is very interesting...

Obama Prepares to Get Tough on Iran | Newsweek Politics | Newsweek.com

-spence

Spence, not to take away from your HC thread,
but it's taken Obama close to a a year for him to figure out "an outstretched hand to Iran
will not on it's own produce the results he needs."??????

Flash- with crazies, you deal from strenght first,
THEN you offer "an outstrectched hand to get the results you need."

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Flash- with crazies, you deal from strenght first,
THEN you offer "an outstrectched hand to get the results you need."

Dealing from strength first (IE. the Bush method) proved to be quite effective with Iran and North Korea. The proof is in today's news:
North Korean plane carrying smuggled arms seized in Thailand | World news | guardian.co.uk
Iran 'ready to swap uranium for fuel' - CNN.com

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, not to take away from your HC thread,
but it's taken Obama close to a a year for him to figure out "an outstretched hand to Iran
will not on it's own produce the results he needs."??????

Flash- with crazies, you deal from strenght first,
THEN you offer "an outstrectched hand to get the results you need."

Did you read the linked article?

One key point was that Obama's failed effort to pursue a peaceful diplomatic solution has earned him the chits necessary to get Russia and China to potentially play ball.

Or put more simply, he's done his diligence...

Bush had no patience nor respect for International laws, and the result was 8 years of complete inaction. Yet, you're fretting over 9 months where it looks (on paper at least) like we're making some progress?

This isn't a situation where we can just sock a bully (or a crazy) in the mouth. I think they might be on to something here...

-spence

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

This is very interesting...

Obama Prepares to Get Tough on Iran | Newsweek Politics | Newsweek.com

-spence

Yes it is.