Debate #1

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

The lack of specifics by Romney/Ryan on their tax plan is a massive liability in their platform.

-spence

lame debate? why, because your man was crushed? reading most pundits, it was one of the best debates in 30 yrs. No rhetoric, very substantive. Each got plenty of speaking time.


I guess you missed:

1. Lower rates and discontinue deductions so revenue is flat. Spurs small business, does not hurt middle class.
So, what deductions will you discontinue? Paraphrase - I dont want to ram my plans down the countrys throat I want to work with Dems and repubs to come up with the right deductions.
2. Every program gets a smell test - if we need $$ from China to fund and its not benefitting the economy - it goes
3. we grow the tax revenue by growing the economy - more people working, more tax revenue (thats what created Clintons surplus, no thigher taxes!)

I love when Mitt threw Simpson Bowles at Obama (where is Bryan on this?). Mitt said he should have taken it to congress, worked out kinks and passed, but mr pres, you wasted 2 yrs!
So, what specifics do you need? he was very specific.
Obamas plan - I'll continue to work hard for you....

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

1. Lower rates and discontinue deductions so revenue is flat. Spurs small business, does not hurt middle class.

Making the Bush cuts permanent and cutting another 20% adds 5 TRILLION to the deficit over 10 years. This is from the CBO.

There are not enough deductions to offset this and make it revenue neutral...nor is there any way that Congress would allow tax breaks like the mortgage interest deduction to simply be eliminated as the Middle Class would get hammered.

What Romney is assuming is that the tax cuts will magically spur massive growth to offset lost revenues. I've seen no global economic scenario that suggests this is even remotely possible.

Further, Romney would inherit a large deficit just like Obama did and Romney would run a large deficit throughout his entire term regardless of what spending cuts they may propose.

The idea he can dramatically lower taxes without incurring additional deficit spending is mathematically impossible unless you believe in fairy dust.

Do you believe in fairy dust?

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Making the Bush cuts permanent and cutting another 20% adds 5 TRILLION to the deficit over 10 years. This is from the CBO.

-spence

yawn, you used to be above partisan talking points
- from Factcheck.org

To be clear, Romney has proposed cutting personal federal income tax rates across the board by 20 percent, in addition to extending the tax cuts enacted early in the Bush administration. He also proposes to eliminate the estate tax permanently, repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax, and eliminate taxes on interest, capital gains and dividends for taxpayers making under $200,000 a year in adjusted gross income.

By themselves, those cuts would, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, lower federal tax liability by “about $480 billion in calendar year 2015” compared with current tax policy, with Bush cuts left in place. The Obama campaign has extrapolated that figure out over 10 years, coming up with a $5 trillion figure over a decade.

However, Romney always has said he planned to offset that massive cut with equally massive reductions in tax preferences to broaden the tax base, thus losing no revenue and not increasing the deficit. So to that extent, the president is incorrect: Romney is not proposing a $5 trillion reduction in taxes.

And yes, I do believe in fairy dust

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Romney is not proposing a $5 trillion reduction in taxes.

And yes, I do believe in fairy dust

Clearly, because without specifics that's exactly what he's proposing.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Clearly, because without specifics that's exactly what he's proposing.

-spence

Spency, what about that $40 trillion gap I asked you about? Nothing to say? Not at all? Can you at least admit that you have no idea how to address that gap, and that therefore those programs might genuinely need a haircut in order to be saved? Would it literally kill you to admit that?

Now I know why Obama stunk last night. I needed Al Gore to explain it...it was the high altitude in Denver. I guess the atmosphere is racist.

Gore blames Denver altitude for Obama's debate performance | Fox News

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spency, what about that $40 trillion gap I asked you about? Nothing to say? Not at all? Can you at least admit that you have no idea how to address that gap, and that therefore those programs might genuinely need a haircut in order to be saved? Would it literally kill you to admit that?

Nobody has a plan to fully address the increase in estimated spending.

There was a good report I saw the other day that showed the Obama and Ryan plans for Medicare had about the same impact, just achieved via different means. Romney is even worse as he's making promises he can't keep to maintain spending levels longer than Obama.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Nobody has a plan to fully address the increase in estimated spending.

There was a good report I saw the other day that showed the Obama and Ryan plans for Medicare had about the same impact, just achieved via different means. Romney is even worse as he's making promises he can't keep to maintain spending levels longer than Obama.

-spence

"Nobody has a plan to fully address the increase in estimated spending."

Paul Ryan does. Your side attacked him for it, and offered exactly nothing as an alternative.

[Slipknot]

It's times like these that I wish Ross Perot had the stones to stay in the race back when he ran instead of dropping out then getting back in after the media investigated his family(he should have expected thatand had thinker skin to deal with it) Perot would have gotten this country out of debt I believe. He was on the right track.
But then again, once the democrats got back in power, it would have all gone to heck anyway

I think Romney won this debate

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by spence

Clearly, because without specifics that's exactly what he's proposing.

-spence

as opposed to the concrete plan of hope and change 4 years ago......