Debate #1

[Saltheart]

Romney crushed that socialist. The most striking thing was how Romney's responses with specifics were so accurate that Obama couldn't even respond at all , he was stupified. I loved the part where Romney started teaching Obama that most small business owners get taxed as individuals at individual rates , not at corporate rates. That is 100% true. As a small business owner that was how I paid taxes for 13 years. This irrefutable fact just shut Obama down like Romney had thrown a switch.

Crushing victory for Romney!!

I look for Obama to come out swinging next debate with no holds barred. He'll be throwing out every lying soundbite he can muster just to try to look like he showed up instead of the total mummy act he put on last night.

Spence , your guy looked bad. He looked like a bag of wind with nothing but rhetoric in the face of withering facts from Romney It wasn't a bad debate , it was a great debate but totally lopsided. Obama should be ashamed of himself.

Left wingers thing the government should take 5 trillion and then squander 2 and give back 3 in the form of stimulus money. Romney wants to leave the 5 trillion in the hands of the people , not let the government take there wasteful cut out of it. Don't believe a word about the "the math doesn't add up". Romney is a business man whose carreer was about how things do add up and I'm totally confident that his plan for tax cuts offset by closing of loopholes and increased revenues do to economic growth stimulated by those tax cuts is far more realistic than the "I have a dream" rhetoric Obama is trying to sell.

Anyway , I found the debates to be excellent . Romney had the best performance and most lopsided victory by a presidential debate participant since Reagan kicked Mondales butt.

I loved it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

He looked like a bag of wind with nothing but rhetoric in the face of withering facts from Romney
I loved it.

The reason Obama looked that way, is because that's exactly what he is, and that's all that he is. It's just not that often that he gets exposed for what he is, which is why Obama prefers to go on "The View" where those hideous gasbags fight each other over who gets to tell Obama how handsome he is.

Great comment Saltheart, particularly from someone who (unlike me) isn't a committed partisan.

If you want to see a true rout, watch Ryan debate Biden. About as fair as a knife fight between Don Knotts and Mr. T. All Joe can do is scream, bang his fists on the podium, and throw papers up in the air, and howl at the moon. I'd like to see Biden claim that Ryan doesn't care about the poor, at which point I pray that Ryan points out that Joe gives about $500 a year to charity, with taxable income of $300,000. Ryan is going to eviscerate Biden.

[Scuttlebutt]

This pretty much sums up the fundamental differences between the two candidates. Excerpts from last night. First BO…

OBAMA: The first role of the federal government is to keep the American people safe. That's its most basic function. And as commander-in-chief, that is something that I've worked on and thought about every single day that I've been in the Oval Office.

Ya… Blah Blah Blah…everybody knows that.

But I also believe that government has the capacity, the federal government has the capacity to help open up opportunity and create ladders of opportunity and to create frameworks where the American people can succeed.

Really? Are Americans really that dumb where the Government needs to help us to succeed? Ladders and frameworks = hand-outs and entitlements.

Look, the genius of America is the free enterprise system and freedom and the fact that people can go out there and start a business, work on an idea, make their own decisions.

Make their own decisions? Where did that come from?

But as Abraham Lincoln understood, there are also some things we do better together. So, in the middle of the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln said, let's help to finance the Transcontinental Railroad, let's start the National Academy of Sciences, let's start land grant colleges, because we want to give these gateways of opportunity for all Americans, because if all Americans are getting opportunity, we're all going to be better off. That doesn't restrict people's freedom. That enhances it.

I suppose some Federal programs were beneficial back in the day, TVA, Hoover Dam, Panama Canal, NASA. But the key word here is “GIVE.” Whatever happened to working hard for opportunity?

Here is Romney’s response. No need to comment it speaks for itself.

The role of government: Look behind us. The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. The role of government is to promote and protect the principles of those documents.

First, life and liberty. We have a responsibility to protect the lives and liberties of our people, and that means a military second to none. I do not believe in cutting our military. I believe in maintaining the strength of America's military.

Second, in that line that says we are endowed by our creator with our rights, I believe we must maintain our commitment to religious tolerance and freedom in this country. That statement also says that we are endowed by our creator with the right to pursue happiness as we choose. I interpret that as, one, making sure that those people who are less fortunate and can't care for themselves are cared by -- by one another.

We're a nation that believes that we're all children of the same god and we care for those that have difficulties, those that are elderly and have problems and challenges, those that are disabled. We care for them. And we -- we look for discovery and innovation, all these things desired out of the American heart to provide the pursuit of happiness for our citizens.

Here’s the best part….WAIT FOR IT...WAIT FOR IT...

But we also believe in maintaining for individuals the right to pursue their dreams and not to have the government substitute itself for the rights of free individuals. And what we're seeing right now is, in my view, a -- a trickle-down government approach, which has government thinking it can do a better job than free people pursuing their dreams. And it's not working.
And the proof of that is 23 million people out of work. The proof of that is 1 out of 6 people in poverty. The proof of that is we've gone from 32 million on food stamps to 47 million on food stamps. The proof of that is that 50 percent of college graduates this year can't find work.

Nuff said…

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Scuttlebutt;962068



[COLOR="blue"

Are Americans really that dumb where the Government needs to help us to succeed? Ladders and frameworks = hand-outs and entitlements.[/COLOR]

And there in lies what this election is all about.
Do away with all the rhetoric and BS and it comes down to this :

Do you want to be independent, free to make your own choices and decesions
or have a Government do it for you with all it's consequences?

America was founded on the former after having had enough of the latter.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Saltheart

The most striking thing was how Romney's responses with specifics were so accurate that Obama couldn't even respond at all , he was stupified.

I think he was stunned by the level of BS Romney was spewing forth.

I loved the part where Romney started teaching Obama that most small business owners get taxed as individuals at individual rates , not at corporate rates. That is 100% true. As a small business owner that was how I paid taxes for 13 years.

What it showed was that Romney doesn't have a basic understanding of marginal tax rates. We all understand that many small business owners are taxed as individuals...but how many are paying themselves over $250k without filing as an LLC or pass through?

If you're in that 3% and Obama's plan is going to kill your business I'd really suggest you seek a qualified accountant!

Spence , your guy looked bad. He looked like a bag of wind with nothing but rhetoric in the face of withering facts from Romney It wasn't a bad debate , it was a great debate but totally lopsided. Obama should be ashamed of himself.

I agree Obama didn't have a good showing, but Romney wasn't offering many facts.

Obama doubled the deficit = false
Obama stole 750B from Medicare = false
Romney's health care plan covers pre-existing conditions = false
1/2 of green stimulus companies have gone under = false

and on and on...

Left wingers thing the government should take 5 trillion and then squander 2 and give back 3 in the form of stimulus money. Romney wants to leave the 5 trillion in the hands of the people , not let the government take there wasteful cut out of it. Don't believe a word about the "the math doesn't add up". Romney is a business man whose carreer was about how things do add up and I'm totally confident that his plan for tax cuts offset by closing of loopholes and increased revenues do to economic growth stimulated by those tax cuts is far more realistic than the "I have a dream" rhetoric Obama is trying to sell.

I've yet to read ANYTHING that suggests Romney really has a plan.

His tax promises are mathematically impossible.

If he was as good of a business person as you suggest he'd be offering a solution to navigate the business, not selling a pipe dream. Romney's career was made by parting companies out for a profit, not structuring them for sustained growth...and there's a BIG difference.

-spence

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by spence

Romney's career was made by parting companies out for a profit, not structuring them for sustained growth...and there's a BIG difference.
-spence

Check out a company called Staples........

Not mention being a Governor
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[spence]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Check out a company called Staples........

Staples was one of Bain's earliest and biggest success stories.

But the point is still sound, the objective of private equity is rarely to take long-term risk, it's to structure a short-term deal that they can derive profit from.

Romney has executive experience certainly, but to say his business background somehow gives him grand insight into what the US needs to be successful is a bit of a stretch.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Staples was one of Bain's earliest and biggest success stories. But the point is still sound, the objective of private equity is rarely to take long-term risk, it's to structure a short-term deal that they can derive profit from. Romney has executive experience certainly, but to say his business background somehow gives him grand insight into what the US needs to be successful is a bit of a stretch. -spence

"Romney has executive experience certainly, but to say his business background somehow gives him grand insight into what the US needs to be successful is a bit of a stretch"

WOW. OK, Spence. So in 2008, what was on Obama's resume that convinced you he had the grand insight into what the US needs? What had Obama done before 2008, that was more relevent to being POTUS than Romney's executive experience?

Spence, when you post here, you would do well to remember that we aren't all thoughtless lemmings.

P.S. If you don't htiunk that executive experience in the business world makes him qualified, how about his executive experience in the political world? The man was governor of Massachusetts.