Finally, an opponent takes the gloves off against Obama

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

RIJIMMY, let me put it this way...please tell me the difference between Bush's use of Gitmo, and Obama's use of Gitmo. Because Bush caught a lot of heat for his use of Gitmo. In my opinion, Obama is using Gitmo the same exact way, and he gets a pass.

How many have been added to the detaines under this administration? I ask b/c I just don't know... it does change that argument for 'using' and being 'stuck with'

and yes, I agree he was pandering, we aren't all blind idealogs on the left Jim........

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

How many have been added to the detaines under this administration? I ask b/c I just don't know... it does change that argument for 'using' and being 'stuck with'

and yes, I agree he was pandering, we aren't all blind idealogs on the left Jim........

I honestly have no idea how many have been added.

I know that you are not a blind ideologue. In my last post, I referred to RIJIMMY when I meant to say RIROCKHOUND. I don't agree with you on much, but I know that you are very thoughtful. And thoughtful is the polar opposite of a blind ideologue. That's what I was trying to say before.

I still don't see how one can bash Bush on Gitmo, but not bash Obama. We'll agree to disagree on that score...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I know that you are not a blind ideologue. In my last post, I referred to RIJIMMY when I meant to say RIROCKHOUND. I don't agree with you on much, but I know that you are very thoughtful. e...

he's cute and cuddly too

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I still don't see how one can bash Bush on Gitmo, but not bash Obama. We'll agree to disagree on that score...

I think he did pander and overstate what he could do... my gut is that he has not been adding a huge number of new detainees, and I suspect, that if they are most are not random targets... a lot of the early heat on GWB about Gitmo was that it was more of a wide cast net, that has been thinned down... many needed/deserve to be there; many did not... that's why Bush got crucified for it...

think progress is not my 'trusted source' but I see the same number in two articles... 171, down from 779; it doesn't say how many added, but my sense is not many....

you view at as 'doing the same thing' I see them as one ordering the drinks and one stuck with the tab.....

By The Numbers: 10 Years At Guantánamo Bay | ThinkProgress
Guantanamo Bay 10th Anniversary: Obama's Detention Law Could Fill Prison Obama Tried To Close

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

you view at as 'doing the same thing' I see them as one ordering the drinks and one stuck with the tab.....

[

based on your links, it seems as though he hashly criticized the guy at the bar for how much and what he was drinking and for even being at the bar in the first place, but upon depature he jumped right up on the barstool, set a deadline for the bartender to stop serving him but then signed legislation eliminating 'closing time" and he's been at the bar drinking ever since....I'm not sure that the tab he got stuck with will ever get paid if he has anything to do with it after the cops drag him out for overstaying his welcome and being disorderly I imagine the "tab" he got stuck with will probably get passed on to the next guy on the barstool.......

can't think of any reason why he'd be "adding huge numbers of detainees" but if we end up in a major conflict in the next couple of months this could certinly happen.....

from your link
Obama's Detention Law Could Fill Prison Obama Tried To Close"President Barack Obama failed two years ago to close the infamous Guantanamo Bay prison, and with Wednesday marking the 10th anniversary of its creation, debate is raging over whether a law he signed will ensure it will stay open for decades to come, jailing even United States citizens.

Tucked into the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012, which Obama signed on New Year's Eve, are provisions that appear to allow indefinite military detention of American terrorism suspects, and to require it of suspected foreign enemies.

[scottw]

it's funny that Ryan is accused of hypocrisy in the other thread for assisting a constituent(s) in accessing stimulus funds after raiing against and voting against them...

he'd have to rail against, vote against and condemn their very existence as un-American...then become President and sign legislation extending them and expanding the scope of those who might get "access"...to reach this level


August 2007

“As President, I will close Guantanamo, reject the Military Commissions Act and adhere to the Geneva Conventions. Our Constitution and our Uniform Code of Military Justice provide a framework for dealing with the terrorists,” says then-Sen. Obama.

Jan. 22, 2009

“This is me following through on not just a commitment I made during the campaign, but I think an understanding that dates back to our founding fathers, that we are willing to observe core standards of conduct, not just when it’s easy, but also when it’s hard.”

May 2009:

“…by any measure, the costs of keeping it open far exceed the complications involved in closing it. That’s why I argued that it should be closed throughout my campaign, and that is why I ordered it closed within one year.”

http://www.salon.com/2011/04/25/obam...namo_rhetoric/

[likwid]

Originally Posted by scottw

August 2007

“As President, I will close Guantanamo, reject the Military Commissions Act and adhere to the Geneva Conventions. Our Constitution and our Uniform Code of Military Justice provide a framework for dealing with the terrorists,” says then-Sen. Obama.

Jan. 22, 2009

“This is me following through on not just a commitment I made during the campaign, but I think an understanding that dates back to our founding fathers, that we are willing to observe core standards of conduct, not just when it’s easy, but also when it’s hard.”

May 2009:

“…by any measure, the costs of keeping it open far exceed the complications involved in closing it. That’s why I argued that it should be closed throughout my campaign, and that is why I ordered it closed within one year.”

The Obama/Gitmo timeline - Salon.com

I have to wonder about salon, they've been around forever as a footnote.

Guantanamo Bay: How the White House lost the fight to close it - The Washington Post

Less spin, more reasons.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by likwid

I have to wonder about salon, they've been around forever as a footnote.

Guantanamo Bay: How the White House lost the fight to close it - The Washington Post

Less spin, more reasons.

I figured Salon was safe from being criticized as a intellectually challenged fox biased misinformation propoganda arm of the vast right wing conspiracy...I guess they're under suspicion too

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by scottw

Obama's Detention Law Could Fill Prison Obama Tried To Close.

And if my Aunt had nuts she'd could be my uncle....

Can I be any clearer that I think it was a stupid pander?

I also think it is not a direct comparison to GWB... IF he STARTS to fill the prison he tried to close (which that line indicates he did TRY to close it) then the direct comparison with GWB can be made...

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

I also think it is not a direct comparison to GWB......

of course it isn't...GWB was presiding over a very different situation, Obama condemned the solution to the situation that was developed under GWB and then promised to end it and eventually signed law continuing it indefinitely and expanding it's reach....a little more than simple pandering, i think

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I know that you are not a blind ideologue. In my last post, I referred to RIJIMMY when I meant to say RIROCKHOUND. I don't agree with you on much, but I know that you are very thoughtful. And thoughtful is the polar opposite of a blind ideologue. That's what I was trying to say before.

Thanks

TXJimmy is a just some dumb redneck.... the opposite of very thoughtful