Paul Ryan it is...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems, because for the past 20 years, each president has pushed the problems under the rug for the next guy... now the problems are so bad that they might possibly be unfixable...

"
i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems"

But Ryan has, courageously, done exactly that. His budget calls for Medicare savings in the multiple trillions of dollars.

What was the Democratic response? Did they offer an alternative plan to save the trillions that we need to save? No. They made a commercial showing Ryan pushing an old lady off a cliff.

That's the choice in thsi election. Romney/Ryan are taklking about the best way to make the difficult but necessary cuts. Obama/Biden will try to make us fear them for that.

Eben, I agree, we are in thsi mess because both parties chose to ignore this problem for 40 years. But today, one party is addressing these issues, the other is not.

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Nebe

i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems, because for the past 20 years, each president has pushed the problems under the rug for the next guy... now the problems are so bad that they might possibly be unfixable...

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"
i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems"

But Ryan has, courageously, done exactly that. His budget calls for Medicare savings in the multiple trillions of dollars.

What was the Democratic response? Did they offer an alternative plan to save the trillions that we need to save? No. They made a commercial showing Ryan pushing an old lady off a cliff.

That's the choice in thsi election. Romney/Ryan are taklking about the best way to make the difficult but necessary cuts. Obama/Biden will try to make us fear them for that.

Eben, I agree, we are in thsi mess because both parties chose to ignore this problem for 40 years. But today, one party is addressing these issues, the other is not.

Jim - even though you sometimes give me a headache reading your posts you are spot on with this. Ryan IS the only one offering some kind of plan out. He stuck his neck WAY out and got pig piled on for it but he did have the testicular fortitude to do it. The Democratic party has NOT come up with a way out.

Ryan's plan is too austere for my tastes and would be watered down a bit but it is part of the way forward.

The LONGER we wait to implement something than the more austere it would be.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnR

The LONGER we wait to implement something than the more austere it would be.

John, the actuaries have been saying for FIFTY years that the Baby Boomers will destroy Medicare and Social security. And for 50 years, politicians haven't been honest enough to do anything about it.

I'm not saying Ryan's plan is necessarily the best solution. But as of the time I sit here and type this, NOONE on the other side is offering any alternatives, other than to keep kicking the can down the road. We can't afford to do that anymore.

Ryan admits this, even though he knews he'll get crucified. Obama and Biden also know this to be true, but they aren't honest/brave enough to say it out loud. We have serious problems that require serious, brave, honest leadership. Obama ain't remotely it.

"The Democratic party has NOT come up with a way out."

And what does that say about them? The lowest estimates for the shortfalls for SS and Medicare are at least $40 trillion. That's more than $130,000 for every living American. How can anyone take a party seriously, that doesn't have a plan to fix this? Anyone with half a brain admits this debt rises to the level of a genuine national security threat, and the Democratic plan is to make the other side too politically afraid to talk about it.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

John, the actuaries have been saying for FIFTY years that the Baby Boomers will destroy Medicare and Social security. And for 50 years, politicians haven't been honest enough to do anything about it.

Yup, I can remember hearing it way back in the 50"s when the Baby Boomers were
being born by the droves. No one, that I can remember, ever even tried to address
the problems except Bush's Soc Sec plan.
Ryan came up with both a budget and Medicare plan, but between the press not covering them, and the opposition poo pooing them, they really never saw the light of day. As mentioned above, each day we wait for a solution the more austere it will be if it can be salvaged at all.

We are going broke,this election has to be about who has the best solutions for paying down the debt, improving the economy, increasing jobs and coming up with solutions for Soc Sec and Medicare.
Overdue time to pay the piper.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by spence

Ryan has not presented any serious proposal to save Medicare trillions of dollars, if anything he's proposed a theory that shifting costs to seniors will decrease overall healthcare costs through competition.

But without insurance exchanges (as established by Obama) there's no way to manage risk which will likely result in what we had before the HCB, namely insurers seeking to game the system by avoiding it, something that would only get worse with less regulation.

The closest thing to a government subsidized system via private insurers (Medicare Advantage) I believe has RAISED costs 8%.

-spence

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, I asked you what Obama/Biden have offered as a solution to Medicare. In true liberal fashion, instead of answering my question, you choose to insult Ryan.

What Spence said is an insult? And you follow it with "in true liberal fashion"?

[spence]

Originally Posted by zimmy

What Spence said is an insult? And you follow it with "in true liberal fashion"?

I doubt he even read my post.

Obama has laid out numerous proposals to bolster Medicare. From negotiation of drug prices, ending insurance over payments through Medicare Advantage, cost controls when rates increase faster than 1% of GDP, programs to improve accuracy of care and coordination to eliminate redundant services etc...

Does this represent a proposed "fix"? I don't think anyone could propose a real fix. A fundamental question is if you believe Medicare is a compact to ensure you'll have health care when at the end of your life you likely won't be able to afford it.

Don't forget as well that under it all is the HCB. From what I've read about the Ryan plan, there are numerous pieces of the Obama plan (like exchanges) that Ryan would need to reuse.

The GOP could be in a pickle when people get down to the details and realize there's more similarities under the covers.

-spence

[Fly Rod]

U all know that neither the Dems nor Repubs will ever cure medicare; medicaid; social as long as they R not included in the programs...take away their exemption from the above and the programs will be fixed.

go people...do not waste your day on something that UUU have no imput on...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I doubt he even read my post.

Obama has laid out numerous proposals to bolster Medicare. From negotiation of drug prices, ending insurance over payments through Medicare Advantage, cost controls when rates increase faster than 1% of GDP, programs to improve accuracy of care and coordination to eliminate redundant services etc...

Does this represent a proposed "fix"? I don't think anyone could propose a real fix. A fundamental question is if you believe Medicare is a compact to ensure you'll have health care when at the end of your life you likely won't be able to afford it.

Don't forget as well that under it all is the HCB. From what I've read about the Ryan plan, there are numerous pieces of the Obama plan (like exchanges) that Ryan would need to reuse.

The GOP could be in a pickle when people get down to the details and realize there's more similarities under the covers.

-spence

"I doubt he even read my post."

Sure I did. Unlike you, I read, and I answer the questions asked. You said Ryan's plan was not serious.

"Obama has laid out numerous proposals to bolster Medicare"

None of them have cause the actuaries to conclude that Medicare is in better financial shape than it was before....Ryan claims his plan addresses the long-term crisis that's coming.

"A fundamental question is if you believe Medicare is a compact to ensure you'll have health care when at the end of your life you likely won't be able to afford it."

No. here is the real question...if Medicare is in the red to the tune of $100,000 for each one of us, what do we do?

Spence, I don't pretend to have any answers here. But i do know that attacking the once-in-a-generation politician who admits we have a problem, is not itself a solution.

Again, you pose it as a touching, emotionsl, gut-wrenching scenario about medical care for those who need it. And of course, that's a big part of this. But you (and Obama) never, ever, ever address the underlying debt. So another question is, do we bankruypot the next generation to take care of Baby Boomers?

I don't know the answer. But unlike you, I (and Paul Ryan) are asking the question.

"The GOP could be in a pickle..."

$15 trillion in debt, another $40 trillion in unfunded liabilities. we're all in a pickle, Spence. The democrat plan is to bury their heads in the sand, only to emerge to say that Republicans hate poor people and old people. That's not my idea of decisive leadership. Obama's dodge-and-demonize approach works on a lot of people like you (and you're not stupid), that doesn't mean it's effective leadership.

[scottw]

I think I've located part of the problem

Originally Posted by spence

From what I've read about the Ryan plan,

-spence

here's some reading Spence
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...on-yuval-levin

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

What Spence said is an insult? And you follow it with "in true liberal fashion"?

Zimmy, I asked Spence what Obama's alternative idea is to fix Medicare. That's a fair and simple question.

Spence's answer was that Ryan's plan sucks.

That's not remotely answering the question that I asked. But it is absolutely what liberals do, again and again. Do you recall the commercial showing Paul Ryan pushing an old lady off a cliff? Zimmy, is that productive dialogue in your opinion?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence's answer was that Ryan's plan sucks.

I can't find where Spence said it sucks. I saw a post where he pointed out things in the plan that he thought were bad ideas, but that isn't what you are talking about. I think my tin hat must be messing with me. Now wait... that was the post you quoted. Did he edit the insulting part where he said it sucks?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Ryan came up with both a budget and Medicare plan, but between the press not covering them, and the opposition poo pooing them, they really never saw the light of day. As mentioned above, each day we wait for a solution the more austere it will be if it can be salvaged at all.

CNN already has an opinion bash-piece about Ryan's plan to try and let people invest a portion of their SS taxes into a private investment vehicle.

It is currently *the* front page featured article from their CNN Money sections. They never feature articles from the Money section of their website.
Ryan's controversial Social Security plan he doesn't discuss - Aug. 14, 2012

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"
i dont think we will ever see a politician bring concrete solid plans on how to fix our problems"

But Ryan has, courageously, done exactly that. His budget calls for Medicare savings in the multiple trillions of dollars.

Ryan has not presented any serious proposal to save Medicare trillions of dollars, if anything he's proposed a theory that shifting costs to seniors will decrease overall healthcare costs through competition.

But without insurance exchanges (as established by Obama) there's no way to manage risk which will likely result in what we had before the HCB, namely insurers seeking to game the system by avoiding it, something that would only get worse with less regulation.

The closest thing to a government subsidized system via private insurers (Medicare Advantage) I believe has RAISED costs 8%.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Ryan has not presented any serious proposal to save Medicare trillions of dollars, if anything he's proposed a theory that shifting costs to seniors will decrease overall healthcare costs through competition.

But without insurance exchanges (as established by Obama) there's no way to manage risk which will likely result in what we had before the HCB, namely insurers seeking to game the system by avoiding it, something that would only get worse with less regulation.

The closest thing to a government subsidized system via private insurers (Medicare Advantage) I believe has RAISED costs 8%.

-spence

Spence, I asked you what Obama/Biden have offered as a solution to Medicare. In true liberal fashion, instead of answering my question, you choose to insult Ryan.

Is Ryan's plan the best possible solution to save Medicare? Maybe not. But as of today (as JohnR said), he is the only elected official in Washington (that I know of) who had the intellectual honesty to say out loud that Medicare is broke and needs fixing.

In response, all Obama has done is insult Ryan. And you are doing the same.

Jim in CT: Spence, what is the Democratic plan to save Medicare

Spence: Ryan's plan is not serious.

See what I mean, Spence? You didn't answer the question I asked. I didn't ask you what you thought of Ryan's plan (because everyone on Earth knows what you think of it). I asked you what your party's plan is...and your party has no plan. All they can do, all you can do, is insult.

Do you never, ever get tired of that?