Should we be better than this

[spence]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

you never cease to amaze me.
OBL was shot in cold blood, unarmed.

I believe that was the mission and something I don't have an issue with. The point was that we didn't parade his head around on a stake afterwords.

"in the heat of battle someone might kill out of rage or hatred" - really? you think they KILL out of sense of duty? Orders?

I think that's pretty obvious don't you?

Im gotta drop from this thread because I have a lot of emotion on military topics but I'll leave you with this to chew on spence. please read carefully - you never seem to much of a history guy so this may be shocking to you, but its 100% true
The 101st airborne has been recognized over and over for their heroics in WWII and especially d-day. They were immortalized further by the Band of Brothers movies and book. I've read additonal books written by some of the guys from Band of B. I attending a forum with these guys and heard their stories in person. It may be news to you but they shot, in cold blood, EVERY SS solider that surrendered to them. Everyone. never took an SS prisoner.. that was a war crime. that was wrong. But you know what, who cares? these guys are heroes and most men could never do what they did. I dont believe they are above the law, but the law changes when you see and do what they do every day. the same goes for those guys in afghanistan. Spence - you wouldnt have the balls to look those guys in the eye and condemn them. They've gone through more hell in a minute than you will in your life. To me, pissing on dead guys is equivalent to vandalism. its no big deal.

This situation is a lot different than in WW2. You could also think that the taking of prisoners in that situation could be a tactical mistake.

Here the action has no real merit, but it's also potentially destructive considering the context.

I've never been quick to condemn the actions of our troops, and frankly believe they deserve a lot of leeway. Most likely these guys are good Marines who just did something stupid, especially by letting themselves be recorded on camera doing it.

An "anything goes" mentality isn't in the interest of our country or our troops.

-spence

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

Maybe the enemy would consider what they do before doing it if they knew we would retaliate in the same manner, isn't that what the cold war was all about.

I have to say, I am almost dumbfounded with your comments in this thread, but it makes it very clear how I could be so far apart from you on most of the topics in this forum. Completely different world view and belief of right and wrong, let alone what it means to be an American. If you are under 21 or so, I can chalk it up to age, but otherwise...

[scottw]

Allen West summed it up nicely yesterday....

"The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter."

As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell." Col. Allen West

...............................

sadly, isolated incidents like these are often used to denigrate the military and America and grandstand to score political points by those that I guess "fully understand right and wrong and really know what it means to be an American"?


"If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings," #^&#^&#^&#^& Durbin said last week.


"On March 19, 2004, President Bush asked, 'Who would prefer that Saddam's torture chambers still be open?'" said Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass. "Shamefully, we now learn that Saddam's torture chambers reopened under new management: U.S. management."



Speaking with host Bob Schieffer about Iraq, Sen. John Kerry said, "There is no reason ... that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the ... of ... the historical customs, religious customs."


Murtha said on ABC's This Week program in May 2006 there was "no doubt" that the Marines were guilty, claiming a cover-up of their war crimes went "up the chain of command."

Among Murtha's unsubstantiated remarks to ABC: “One woman, as I understand it, in talking to officials in the Marine Corps, was kneeling over a child pleading for mercy and they shot her in cold blood. That’s the thing that’s so disturbing. ”


...........................................

it would be nice if we could maintain the perspective that our troops are trying to maintain peace and protect innocents over there every day while the "peed upon" types engage in efforts like this one below every day, I think it is silly to suggest that they will somehow be "more motivated" by an incident like the one in question

BBC News - Iraq suicide bomb kills 50 in Basra pilgrims attack



take the POLL http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...CctP_blog.html

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

I hope I haven't ruined your night, if you would like to elaborate perhaps we could find common ground.
Maybe this will help. I do feel it was stupid what they did but I really have no problem with their actions based upon the circumstances, it's war.

Add to that my belief that when a person dies they leave their body behind and the soul or spirit is free without the pains and limitations of the human body, it is just the vessel they spent their time here in, a carcass if you will. It may seem cold but it actually helps me deal with the passing of loved ones and pets. I'm Agnostic not an Atheist so that might also help explain my view of life here, it's temporary for everyone.

I'm an adult so attack me all you want, I can take it and I will try and continue the conversation without going to the level some others do, most likely because they find it easier to ridicule rather than openly discuss the issue.

I got where you are coming from. I also get that it was war. I don't get the idea that we should do what our enemies do. They do a lot of inhumane crap. I have always felt that we are better than that and should be. I am with McCain on this topic.

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I got where you are coming from. I also get that it was war. I don't get the idea that we should do what our enemies do. They do a lot of inhumane crap. I have always felt that we are better than that and should be. I am with McCain on this topic.

I suppose it's because I am feed up with treating them better than they treat us and it gets me angry seeing such a minor (in my eyes) offense causing so much BS both here and now with our enemies. They expect us to be held to a different standard and do what they do like it's just fine. I say give them a taste of their own medicine.

I wish I could be more eloquent but my education didn't go that well when it comes to the proper use of the english language.
That is also why, if you haven't noticed under my avatar it says "Limited intellect"

Our we on better terms now