Striped Bass, the condition of the fishery

[Clammer]

Dave ;;

I agree & disagree ;;

that bill or whatever is only in Mass . so yes it will put the mass commercials OOB / & with a slot / have it more difficult to keep a bas s . But lets be realistic
I don,t know all the numbers especially by state .. RI,s commercial R & R season is a joke / 5 fish a day per week /with the days being Sunday Thru Thursday . & the spring season closing in two weeks or less / while the fall season can start as 3 or 5 fish a day / then they close it short again / even if the fish arn,t coming in / then they open it again & in the last few years its been open longer /because by then they can,t reach the yearly Quota so they have opened it to draggers .
The traps are part of the quota & the size they are allowed to sell is smaller than the R&R .
IMO .. do you really thing stopping just MA , R&R from commercial fishing & a slot is going to turn this around .
For the most part / Ma commercial season was a bust . not many boats did 30 per day / & for those that did there were plenty that couldn,t get 5 /
After all this is said & done / how is this going t change the status of the striper population .
Millions & millions of pounds will still be taken by rec,s up & down the coast & add the commercial dragging that is allowed down south ... It looks ike from here .. that its a sword thru the Ma R&R & a band aid to the mass REC,s
have have no interest in Mass commercial tooooo F #$%^&*( old to play that game anymore ;
bait or no bait . it does have some effect /but the actual reduction of the stripers [again] is a combination of all of the above / plus pollution issue .s & disease ;;;
the C/B had a 25 year plan to clean it up / but as I said before it was a recommendation //& not a law / so the fencing that was suppose to keep the actual [%$%$%$%$} from farm animals washing into the small creeks & streams & eventually into the C/b system . never happened & now 25 years lTER & AROUND 6 BILLION DOLLARS LIGHT / THEY are talking about doing approx the same thing . / by excluding the famers / mostly the chicken farmers ;

If anyone has worked on a dragger of anysize [even] for a week / then they have seen what they catch & what by catch / undersize / off season fish are sholved back over the side ;;;

this is a whole lot larger than Stripers forever going to try & make it a game fish in JUST Mass .

that would do as much good as pouring a 8oz . glass on beer in a 55gal. barrel that has a whole in it ;;;

Just my honest opinion & observation of being on the water 50 years .. not 3 months on weelends .,.,

Carry on MIKE

[MagicWand]

Short and sweet!......Protect the baitfish first.

[fishaholic18]

Originally Posted by Clammer

Dave ;;


IMO .. do you really thing stopping just MA , R&R from commercial fishing & a slot is going to turn this around .
For the most part / Ma commercial season was a bust . not many boats did 30 per day / & for those that did there were plenty that couldn,t get 5 /

Well, the final #'s for 2008 aren't posted yet but I'm sure they came close if not hit the quota.. I know they were over 1/2 way there in a month..which Is down from years past but still a sh!tload of fish.
They have exceeded their quota of over 1,000,000lbs since 2003 (that's only because that's as far back as I could find records for). My info came from the Massachusetts Department of Fish and Game website... So..yes..that WILL have a huge effect on the SB population alone, imagine if they started cutting in in '03.

BTW.. I have had a MA comm. lic. in the past...and sold many fish legally.........and I will not discount getting it again,,,

[quick decision]

IF THE STRIPED BASS POPULATION WAS IN TROUBLE LIKE IS BEING SAID BY SOME, THEN WHY ISN'T THE BLUE FISH HEARD HAVING PROBLEMS? I SAW MORE FISH THIS YEAR THAN EVER BEFORE. PERHAPS THERE IS MORE BAIT IN THE WATER THAN YOU THINK AND THE FISH ARN'T MOVING AROUND AS MUCH. JUST BECAUSE YOU WENT TO YOUR FAVORITE FISHING SPOT AND GOT SKUNKED DOSN'T MEAN THE BASS POPULATION IS HAVING A PROBLEM.

[Crafty Angler]

Originally Posted by Clammer

Dave ;;

I agree & disagree ;;

that bill or whatever is only in Mass . so yes it will put the mass commercials OOB / & with a slot / have it more difficult to keep a bas s . But lets be realistic
I don,t know all the numbers especially by state .. RI,s commercial R & R season is a joke / 5 fish a day per week /with the days being Sunday Thru Thursday . & the spring season closing in two weeks or less / while the fall season can start as 3 or 5 fish a day / then they close it short again / even if the fish arn,t coming in / then they open it again & in the last few years its been open longer /because by then they can,t reach the yearly Quota so they have opened it to draggers .
The traps are part of the quota & the size they are allowed to sell is smaller than the R&R .
IMO .. do you really thing stopping just MA , R&R from commercial fishing & a slot is going to turn this around .
For the most part / Ma commercial season was a bust . not many boats did 30 per day / & for those that did there were plenty that couldn,t get 5 /
After all this is said & done / how is this going t change the status of the striper population .
Millions & millions of pounds will still be taken by rec,s up & down the coast & add the commercial dragging that is allowed down south ... It looks ike from here .. that its a sword thru the Ma R&R & a band aid to the mass REC,s
have have no interest in Mass commercial tooooo F #$%^&*( old to play that game anymore ;
bait or no bait . it does have some effect /but the actual reduction of the stripers [again] is a combination of all of the above / plus pollution issue .s & disease ;;;
the C/B had a 25 year plan to clean it up / but as I said before it was a recommendation //& not a law / so the fencing that was suppose to keep the actual [%$%$%$%$} from farm animals washing into the small creeks & streams & eventually into the C/b system . never happened & now 25 years lTER & AROUND 6 BILLION DOLLARS LIGHT / THEY are talking about doing approx the same thing . / by excluding the famers / mostly the chicken farmers ;

If anyone has worked on a dragger of anysize [even] for a week / then they have seen what they catch & what by catch / undersize / off season fish are sholved back over the side ;;;

this is a whole lot larger than Stripers forever going to try & make it a game fish in JUST Mass .

that would do as much good as pouring a 8oz . glass on beer in a 55gal. barrel that has a whole in it ;;;

Just my honest opinion & observation of being on the water 50 years .. not 3 months on weelends .,.,

Carry on MIKE

Ya know, I may be one of the few guys who is fluent in Clammish, but he makes sense to me, anyway...

Discounting poaching and illegal sales, the numbers just don't work - for all intents and purposes, there aren't any verifiable figures for the take by recreational fisherman targeting striped bass. What is being used now barely even qualifies as a guesstimate, at best.

I don't wanna set fire to my own teepee here, but data collection on that - meaning OUR - side of the fence is way the hell beyond imprecise. It's my understanding that the point of the coming saltwater license is to provide NOAA or NMFS or AFC with more precise numbers on recreational catch to set sustainable size and possession limits to bring striped bass to a sustainable fishery for the future. I hope that's going to be the case but I've got my doubts.

Even if the rec take figures do end up giving the fisheries managers good data, what is it that they intend to do with it? Ya know, it's obvious to just about everyone how important this issue is - and you've got recs and comms in a pitched battle between the two user groups. Striped bass are a common resource for ALL of us.

You want to point a finger at someone? Try pointing it at the fisheries managers - they're not working in the best interests of either us, both recs and comms or the bass. That's the third group in this mess and the one ultimately inflicting the most damage.

An 8 year old kid could tell you why bass are in jeopardy, for chrissakes -

1. You're not letting 'em eat, and
2. You're not letting 'em make baby bass like they used to so there's not enough to catch.
3. Ya gotta leave 'em alone for a little while until they get better. All of ya.

The problem is, there's no political will to do the right thing in terms of habitat and forage - because it's going to be extremely expensive and step on some very big toes in a lot of non-fishing industries. It will also take a paradigm shift in the way in which people have been led to believe they have to live their lives in terms of consumption. And those two issues cover both habitat and forage.

Absolutely no one wants to see a moritorium again - but in a few years there may not be a choice. There's way too much anecdotal evidence from just this board alone that doesn't look good. Everybody will have to take a reduction on an equal basis on a common resource.

To me it seems like the coup de grace for the striper is ultimately going to be delivered by the fisheries managers, if it is indeed going to happen. They're the guys at the helm, not us.

[Raven]

the animal farmers ,,,pigs & chickens ect. are seeing their animal waste as a source for making bio fuel and more money so eventually less of it will be washing into streams and rivers due to run -off...
but........
the use of pelleted grass fertilizers is a whole other dilemma
especially from golf courses ...and parks

i used to see mounds of cattle manure in texas bigger than a football field that was 30' tall... that's all gonna change....

[DZ]

Some good points mentioned in above posts. While a gamefish status in Mass may not make much difference in the "big picture" it would increase the numbers of surviving bass that call Mass waters home for much of the season. Just imagine how many pin hook boats pound Sow & Pigs and Gay Head during the season. Their take is a LOT of quality bass that, if there is no sale, will continue to populate local waters stabilizing the local population. Every bass that is not kept or sent to market is a bass that everyone has a chance of catching in the future. Of course every quality bass that is released increases the amount that a pin hooker can sell.

DZ

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by DZ

Of course every quality bass that is released increases the amount that a pin hooker can sell.

DZ

ya DZ, I do think about that when I release a quality fish , say in the canal during comm season, and i kind of bums me out but then again that fish doesn't have any chance at all if I kept it or another rec. caught and kept it. I'll just keep releasing what I can and hope for the best.



Did clammer really write that?

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

ya DZ, I do think about that when I release a quality fish , say in the canal during comm season, and i kind of bums me out but then again that fish doesn't have any chance at all if I kept it or another rec. caught and kept it. I'll just keep releasing what I can and hope for the best.
Did clammer really write that?

This follows with my earlier post in that it is hard to convince many recreational fisherman to release fish as long as there is a commercial fishery. If you stop commercial fishing it would be easier to convince people to release fish. Plus even more important it would be easier to put stricter catch limits on the recreational fisherman because you would be saving the fish for them.

I wonder if we learned anything from the past. If the numbers are even close to right we are killing bass at a higher rate then we were in the early 70s. Maine, NJ and NH do not allow commercial fishing, if a big user state like Mass stops it may really start the ball rolling. So don't under estimate what this may do.

[Back Beach]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

If the numbers are even close to right we are killing bass at a higher rate then we were in the early 70s. Maine, NJ and NH do not allow commercial fishing, if a big user state like Mass stops it may really start the ball rolling. So don't under estimate what this may do.

I don't feel like we are killing more now than back in the 70's. Back then everything was kept regardless of size becuase there were minimal, if any, regulations other than the 16" size limit.

The Mass commercial season is a joke to me not due to the amount thats harvested, but that its a free for all. The biggest issue for me is the ability for an out of stater to purchase a license and harvest the Mass quota. Its simply assinine as there is no reciprocal with other states that allow commercial harvest. I don't support full exclusivity on the license, meaning only "full time" commercials can or should harvest all the fish. The Mass resident taxpayers should reap the benefit of exclusivity versus allowing any other states to participate.

My personal take is there's still a lot of fish, although there may be fewer than 10 years ago following the moratorium. I don't fully buy the Myco epidemic either. I think its seemingly more prevalent because its being talked about more. I'm also basing my views on what I've experienced and I haven't seen many myco laced fish in my travels.

[BassDawg]

LOTS of GOOOOD points being stated here;

i firstly and foremostly have to agree with the Fixing of the Forage.

gamefish status seems, imho, to be a moot point if the increased #'s of stripers must work harder to locate their first choice and best nutritional value ~bunker, lb for lb~ bang for the buck that they have been foraging on for centuries. could the increase in the "racers" population be a result of myco bact. AND a decrease in READILY available menhaden???

i imagine this racer stock having to swim farther and farther and already low on nutrition from their nutriously deficient breeding grounds~~~~~~~~~then as they return to their migratory haunts, the same lack of menhaden than say X number of years ago, contributes to a "sickly" stock base that might be more susceptable to myco bacteriosis where they breed and less nourished when they return to the same menhaden depleted OBX. seems like a vicious, multiplying, and repeating cycle that has yet to reach it's MAX potential for disaster,,,,,,,,,,

i say that the Omega Proteins of the world need to diversify and find alternative sources for fish oil and they can plant soy beans for chicken feed!! why not farm the menhaden and leave the wild ones ALONE?? i'm no rocket scientist; but it seems to me that a soy bean field would be onehelluvalot cheaper to service and maintain than a fleet of purse seiners and their spotter planes~~ FOGEDDAH BOUT the indisputable damage that has been done to the Atlantic Coast Stock of Menhaden. human GREED knows no bounds and often will not stop until her obese adzzz is getting her stomach stapled with a fistful of oreos(bunker) in onehand, boatloads of CASH in the other, and her feet firmly planted on the necks of stripers,,,,,,,,,,,,,

on a another tine of this multi-pronged discussion,

while i am quite sure that Mister McKenna's anecdotal observations are very true and accurate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,from my limited experience and in the "samplings" that i found from '08 i ran into schoolies first in the spring to june from DI to GLCSTR, then i had a better year than in '07 for keepers by size and pb and less racers than '06 and '07 combined. also, the Fall began with a run of schoolies after a great year of big fish up Cape Ann way, and i missed the blitzes due to mucho work. my numbers may be skewed and i fished much less than in '07, but i C&R many fish that covered the entire spectrum of sizes and what seems to be the "right" pattern of progression?? and for the first time in three years i ran into fall morning boos and a deep of the night beached fall inshore cod on the Other Cape in '08. what this ALL means, is for the marinebiologists, but from this layman's perspective seems "normal".

lastly, regarding the liscensing/slots/fisheries mngmnt debate,

i will say this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i will concurr with Bryan and others in that we need slots or 1@36"+ with just a coupla provisos. WHEN the feds/states enact this liscensing tariff, i hope and pray that the monies are targeted monies that will and MUST go back into research, enforcement, and parks and recreation.

notsomuch for me and my selfish desires to win back some of the shoreline from the bluebloods and their politicos, but in the interest of proferring the opportunity to pass-on the quintessential NE experience to the generations that will follow,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,our legacy must not only deal with the matters at hand ~~and they ARE multiple~~but we must also consider our children and our children's children.

certainly the Narragansetts from the 1200's - 1700's were responsible enough to ensure that their future peoples had stripers to eat, sell, trade. are we THAT much more shallow and THAT less considerate of one of God's greatest provisions (to include the oceans, the forage, and the species) that we could repeat the atrocities of 80's and the decimation of the American Bison?? both were proud species that flourished and were managed most effectively without phd's, science, mangmt councils, or a gov't that could care less about what's GOOD for its God given resources. these precious commodities were respected by a peoples that knew their intrinsic values for the GOOD of the whole planet and for the enrichment of their immediate, intermediate, and their lives ad infinitum.

i am fully aware that THESE are different times, but WHO
made them this different and at WHAT monumentous COSTS??
for once i would like to see the US of A proact instead of react,
since the latter is always too little too late and wreaks irrepairable
damage more often than NOT!!!

just sum thoughts,,,,,,,,,gents,,,,,,,,,,carry on!