He kept us safe after 9/11

[striperman36]

• 68 percent of people questioned in poll say George W. Bush presidency was a failure
• 31 percent call Bush presidency a success, CNN/Opinion Research poll shows
• 44 percent say Bush faults led to failure; 22 percent blame outside circumstances
• Half of those polled say U.S. would be better off if Al Gore had won in 2000

[Sea Dangles]

I think that only the future will dictate how this presidents actions should be judged. I know Spence is well read politically, just as I am sure he has zero understanding of the unpublished factors that have influenced W's decisions in the office. One thing I do know is that he tried his best to do what is right for our country. I hope everyone understands that the deaths of our troops was not in vain , but to secure the safety of Americans for generations to come. Our forefathers made similar sacrifices all in the name of freedom and democracy. Anyone can sit on their couch surrounded with luxuries and judge or throw stones but the reality is most have no concept of the real dangers that lurk within and beyond our borders. W has lead with his chin for quite some time and even loyalists have grown tired of defending his decisions but I can't imagine many would have the courage to have walked in those shoes for the term. Again, let history be the judge and support your country for better or worse.

[spence]

I don't think our troops have died in vain, they sign up for a job and are put into harms way by civilian leadership. Even if the bigger mission is not successful there are smaller victories along the way that can be beneficial in many ways. Nor is this about supporting your country, no lack of support here.

And while I'm sure there's more going on behind the scene than we realize, I also think there's a lot we do know. I don't believe there has been a credible large attack thwarted in the US, and most of the success touted by the Administration has been seriously puffed up.

The issue here is about claiming to have kept Americans safe.

Bush has claimed that we've "taken the fight to the enemy" and justificed the invastion of Iraq (in hindsight) on these terms. That because al Qaeda is engaged with us in the Middle East it has protected Americans at home.

Our troops (most of them at least) are Americans as well, just because they die overseas why don't they count?

-spence

[Nebe]

More importantly, LOST season debut is on Wednesday. Bush is old news.

[spence]

This isn't even really about Bush.

It's more of a philosophical question.

-spence

[GattaFish]

Originally Posted by spence

This isn't even really about Bush.

It's more of a philosophical question.

-spence

I think your question is a good one,,, and not sure can easily be answered,,,, Set aside politics... it is a mess no matter how you look at it,,,

No matter what president was in office on Sept 11th , they would have had to make some VERY difficult choices....

The middle east is a not a place where normal diplomacy, and rational thinking work,,,, Deceit is a huge problem the U.S. faces even with countries who claim to be our allies... Of course The U.S. has its own share as well,,,

Anyone here can claim they could have made other choices that would have clearly solved all the worlds problems but we don't know all the details,,,,, No really knows... Unless someone here has been in those top secret presidential briefings they would only be speculating..

Strategically,,,I think Iraq was a thought that was only complicated by the unexpected occurrence of Sept 11th,,, And if I recall almost every American wanted to bomb Afghanistan after Sept 11th...and rightfully so....

Without a doubt Obama's eyes have been opened to the middle east and who knows maybe by the end of his 4 years we will be defending Isreal after they bomb Iran....

Never the less Ahmadinejad does not translate into "I'm-a-nut-job" without good reason.

[spence]

Originally Posted by GattaFish

I think your question is a good one,,, and not sure can easily be answered,,,, Set aside politics... it is a mess no matter how you look at it,,,

The reason why I focus on the "net benefit" is how else can we judge if our leadership is being successful? Everything else seems to require oversimplified assumptions to a very complex situation.

It's precisely that it is a difficult question to answer that I find it interesting how people are so willing to do just that.

Obama might face similar challenges in the next 4 years, and the cost to Americans in terms of debt and lives could be steep. Are we willing to write such sacrifice off the books because it's too easy for most people to just flip channels?

It smells like someone is cooking the books, leaving just another bubble to burst.

-spence

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Nebe

More importantly, LOST season debut is on Wednesday. Bush is old news.

here here

[Bronko]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I think that only the future will dictate how this presidents actions should be judged. I know Spence is well read politically, just as I am sure he has zero understanding of the unpublished factors that have influenced W's decisions in the office. One thing I do know is that he tried his best to do what is right for our country. I hope everyone understands that the deaths of our troops was not in vain , but to secure the safety of Americans for generations to come. Our forefathers made similar sacrifices all in the name of freedom and democracy. Anyone can sit on their couch surrounded with luxuries and judge or throw stones but the reality is most have no concept of the real dangers that lurk within and beyond our borders. W has lead with his chin for quite some time and even loyalists have grown tired of defending his decisions but I can't imagine many would have the courage to have walked in those shoes for the term. Again, let history be the judge and support your country for better or worse.

You said it Chris. I heard that the first CIA intelligence briefing the incoming president attends will make him throw up into his mouth. President Bush alluded to it the other day. A former Clinton advisor once said when Clinton left his first security briefing he was "ashen" and appeared stunned. The amount of terrorist threats both home grown and abroad is astounding. The CIA, FBI and NSA cull through all of the threats and intelligence they receive in a 23 hour period and present the president on a daily basis. Obama now has a clear view of exactly what we face and it will be interesting how he reacts now, armed with this knowledge as opposed to what he said to the "sheep" to get their vote.