Ukraine

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

again, using your logic, every single criminal law then, is imposing ones belief
into another.

saying life begins at conception isn’t arbitrary. That’s the beginning.

saying life begins at any other point is arbitrary. because the baby is no different from one moment to the next. there’s only one moment when something spectacular happens, when something gets created that wasn’t there before. after that it’s a long, slow, continuous process.

again, every single criminal
law law limits choices. nothing unique about abortion in that regard.
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No, my belief and that of many other Americans is that life does not begin at conception.

I believe that life begins at birth.
You don’t believe that and think that everyone must believe what you do.
Most Americans don’t believe they have the right to make that decision for others, even if they would not make that choice themselves.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I believe that life begins at birth.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

so you didn't consider you children to be life, prior to their birth?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by scottw

so you didn't consider you children to be life, prior to their birth?

Not yet
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Not yet
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have you ever seen a sonogram or felt a kick?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Not yet
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So if you and your wife were expecting, Nursery is all painted, just had the baby shower with family and friends. And then Your wife gets taken out by a drunk driver, you lose both her and the baby.

You're telling me you would only mourn the loss of your wife, because the baby was never really here?

I'm calling on that.
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[Got Stripers]

Wow we went off the rails on this thread, but hey I'll chime into the Ukraine thread going all in on abortion rights. I'm all in for woman's choice up to a point in any pregnancy, but some of the laws are now being structured to put that point well ahead of most women even realizing they are pregnant. I also feel extremely strongly that in certain circumstances, the time line should be more flexible, especially when it comes to rape and incest.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

No, my belief and that of many other Americans is that life does not begin at conception.

I believe that life begins at birth.
You don’t believe that and think that everyone must believe what you do.
Most Americans don’t believe they have the right to make that decision for others, even if they would not make that choice themselves.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

our laws against child rape, are an example of imposing our will, on those who are on with child rape.

if you want to say that many more people support abortion than support child rape, of course you’re right.

But every single law limits choices and imposes will. So it’s not a valid argument, it makes no legitimate point.

When do you say life begins?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

our laws against child rape, are an example of imposing our will, on those who are on with child rape.

if you want to say that many more people support abortion than support child rape, of course you’re right.

But every single law limits choices and imposes will. So it’s not a valid argument, it makes no legitimate point.

When do you say life begins?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Now you’re equating rape with abortion?

Reading is not your strong point
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

I believe that life begins at birth.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Please tell us, why that belief is less arbitrary than my belief that it begins at conception?

You believe abortion is OK then, even in the 9th month. Lots of folks disagree with that.