Paul: re crack pipes

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"thru decriminalization, it has significantly reduced the Portuguese prison population and eased the burden on the criminal justice system"

Who cares?

We could also reduce the prison population and ease the burden on our criminal justice system, if we made everything legal. But reducing prison population isn't progress, if it sends people into the public who don't belong there. Telling me that Portugal decreased their prison population, isn't by itself, evidence of any improvement.

Why look at Portugal, when as I said, you can look at liberal utopias like San Francisco.

"I'm lucky enough that I could afford treatment and that my kids haven't had that issue."

So despite the partial dodge, you're saying no, you wouldn't provide needles to an addicted child.

"I'd just as soon not add to their illness"

How is giving them neeedles, not adding to the drug problem?

"if your kid was addicted, you'd just as soon he also had HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C"

I'd drag my kid by the hair into rehab.

We pay for every person we imprison, far better to have them be functioning members of society than locked up.

I’d do what I had to if my kid had that issue and I have no problem with giving addicts proper care and assistance.

Let’s hope none of us have to “drag my kid by the hair into rehab”, if it happens you’ll find out it’s not that simple.

You think addicts parents are all at fault?
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We pay for every person we imprison, far better to have them be functioning members of society than locked up.

I’d do what I had to if my kid had that issue and I have no problem with giving addicts proper care and assistance.

Let’s hope none of us have to “drag my kid by the hair into rehab”, if it happens you’ll find out it’s not that simple.

You think addicts parents are all at fault?
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"We pay for every person we imprison"

I am aware that it's not free. Every sane person is happy to pay taxes to keep some people in prison.

"far better to have them be functioning members of society than locked up."

I am pretty sure that most people who are in prison, are there specifically because they weren't acting like functioning members of society, prior to being put into prison..

I agree it would be better if we had more productive citizens, and fewer prison inmates. You seem to be saying that the only thing stopping prisoners from being productive members of society, is being in prison? You think if we let them all go, they'd all be productive citizens? Are you under the impression that we pick functioning citizens at random, and put them in prison?

"I’d do what I had to if my kid had that issue and I have no problem with giving addicts proper care and assistance."

Nobody has a problem with giving them "proper care". The question is, is it "proper care" to enable them to continue to do hard drugs?

"if it happens you’ll find out it’s not that simple."

When did I say its simple? When you kid's life is at stake you do what's right, even if it's not simple. Simple doesn't even factor into it.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"We pay for every person we imprison"

I am aware that it's not free. Every sane person is happy to pay taxes to keep some people in prison.

"far better to have them be functioning members of society than locked up."

I am pretty sure that most people who are in prison, are there specifically because they weren't acting like functioning members of society, prior to being put into prison..

I agree it would be better if we had more productive citizens, and fewer prison inmates. You seem to be saying that the only thing stopping prisoners from being productive members of society, is being in prison? You think if we let them all go, they'd all be productive citizens? Are you under the impression that we pick functioning citizens at random, and put them in prison?

"I’d do what I had to if my kid had that issue and I have no problem with giving addicts proper care and assistance."

Nobody has a problem with giving them "proper care". The question is, is it "proper care" to enable them to continue to do hard drugs?

"if it happens you’ll find out it’s not that simple."

When did I say its simple? When you kid's life is at stake you do what's right, even if it's not simple. Simple doesn't even factor into it.

So apparently you think we’re winning the war on drugs
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

So apparently you think we’re winning the war on drugs
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Not even close. But I dont think we should give up either. And making it easier for people to get and do drugs, seems like giving up to me.

Apparently you think what San Francisco and Portland are doing is working, because you're ok with doing it countrywide.

I'm trying to debate you Pete, but it's hard when you say that letting people out of prison is necessarily a good thing. You don't think a lot of people in prison, deserve to be there? Either to keep us safe from them, or to give a little justice to their victims?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Not even close. But I dont think we should give up either. And making it easier for people to get and do drugs, seems like giving up to me.

Apparently you think what San Francisco and Portland are doing is working, because you're ok with doing it countrywide.

I'm trying to debate you Pete, but it's hard when you say that letting people out of prison is necessarily a good thing. You don't think a lot of people in prison, deserve to be there? Either to keep us safe from them, or to give a little justice to their victims?

So your solution is spend more to imprison addicts who’s numbers have consistently grown in the hope that we’ll get different results.
Pretty much the definition of insanity
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