Paul: re crack pipes

[Pete F.]

Let's reinvigorate the wonderfully successful war on drugs,

If prison worked, or if enforcement eliminated drug supplies, the U.S. would have seen a decrease in drug use and overdose deaths in the decades since the war on drugs began. Instead, data show that we suffer from 10 times the number of overdose deaths compared to 1990, despite billions spent on prohibition. The use and availability of fentanyl and other opiates has increased, not decreased.

Every overdose death is a tragedy, and too many Americans have been impacted by overdoses and a lack of health care for users. But let’s not be fooled. It’s easy for politicians to jump to “lock ‘em up” policies as a supposed “quick fix” to try to appease voters. We know from more than four decades of the failed war on drugs that this quick fix is a fiction. Prison and enforcement has not and will never make us safe from the risks of substance use. We need our leaders to tell the truth about this fact. We owe it to those who have lost their lives to overdose, and to those lives that can still be saved.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Let's reinvigorate the wonderfully successful war on drugs,

If prison worked, or if enforcement eliminated drug supplies, the U.S. would have seen a decrease in drug use and overdose deaths in the decades since the war on drugs began. Instead, data show that we suffer from 10 times the number of overdose deaths compared to 1990, despite billions spent on prohibition. The use and availability of fentanyl and other opiates has increased, not decreased.

Every overdose death is a tragedy, and too many Americans have been impacted by overdoses and a lack of health care for users. But let’s not be fooled. It’s easy for politicians to jump to “lock ‘em up” policies as a supposed “quick fix” to try to appease voters. We know from more than four decades of the failed war on drugs that this quick fix is a fiction. Prison and enforcement has not and will never make us safe from the risks of substance use. We need our leaders to tell the truth about this fact. We owe it to those who have lost their lives to overdose, and to those lives that can still be saved.

I never, ever said that taking a hard stance will eliminate drugs.

But look at the places that are notoriously soft on drugs, like Portland and San Francisco, and show me the evidence that enabling addicts is better than showing them tough love.

I'll wait for your evidence of such.

Pete, if you had a son who was addicted to heroin, would you give him clean needles?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I never, ever said that taking a hard stance will eliminate drugs.

But look at the places that are notoriously soft on drugs, like Portland and San Francisco, and show me the evidence that enabling addicts is better than showing them tough love.

I'll wait for your evidence of such.

Pete, if you had a son who was addicted to heroin, would you give him clean needles?

Portugal has done better than most of Europe thru decriminalization, it has significantly reduced the Portuguese prison population and eased the burden on the criminal justice system.


I'm lucky enough that I could afford treatment and that my kids haven't had that issue.

I'd just as soon not add to their illness, are you saying that if your kid was addicted, you'd just as soon he also had HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Portugal has done better than most of Europe thru decriminalization, it has significantly reduced the Portuguese prison population and eased the burden on the criminal justice system.


I'm lucky enough that I could afford treatment and that my kids haven't had that issue.

I'd just as soon not add to their illness, are you saying that if your kid was addicted, you'd just as soon he also had HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C.

"thru decriminalization, it has significantly reduced the Portuguese prison population and eased the burden on the criminal justice system"

Who cares?

We could also reduce the prison population and ease the burden on our criminal justice system, if we made everything legal. But reducing prison population isn't progress, if it sends people into the public who don't belong there. Telling me that Portugal decreased their prison population, isn't by itself, evidence of any improvement.

Why look at Portugal, when as I said, you can look at liberal utopias like San Francisco.

"I'm lucky enough that I could afford treatment and that my kids haven't had that issue."

So despite the partial dodge, you're saying no, you wouldn't provide needles to an addicted child.

"I'd just as soon not add to their illness"

How is giving them neeedles, not adding to the drug problem?

"if your kid was addicted, you'd just as soon he also had HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C"

I'd drag my kid by the hair into rehab.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"thru decriminalization, it has significantly reduced the Portuguese prison population and eased the burden on the criminal justice system"

Who cares?

We could also reduce the prison population and ease the burden on our criminal justice system, if we made everything legal. But reducing prison population isn't progress, if it sends people into the public who don't belong there. Telling me that Portugal decreased their prison population, isn't by itself, evidence of any improvement.

Why look at Portugal, when as I said, you can look at liberal utopias like San Francisco.

"I'm lucky enough that I could afford treatment and that my kids haven't had that issue."

So despite the partial dodge, you're saying no, you wouldn't provide needles to an addicted child.

"I'd just as soon not add to their illness"

How is giving them neeedles, not adding to the drug problem?

"if your kid was addicted, you'd just as soon he also had HIV/AIDS, hepatitis B, and hepatitis C"

I'd drag my kid by the hair into rehab.

We pay for every person we imprison, far better to have them be functioning members of society than locked up.

I’d do what I had to if my kid had that issue and I have no problem with giving addicts proper care and assistance.

Let’s hope none of us have to “drag my kid by the hair into rehab”, if it happens you’ll find out it’s not that simple.

You think addicts parents are all at fault?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

We pay for every person we imprison, far better to have them be functioning members of society than locked up.

I’d do what I had to if my kid had that issue and I have no problem with giving addicts proper care and assistance.

Let’s hope none of us have to “drag my kid by the hair into rehab”, if it happens you’ll find out it’s not that simple.

You think addicts parents are all at fault?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

"We pay for every person we imprison"

I am aware that it's not free. Every sane person is happy to pay taxes to keep some people in prison.

"far better to have them be functioning members of society than locked up."

I am pretty sure that most people who are in prison, are there specifically because they weren't acting like functioning members of society, prior to being put into prison..

I agree it would be better if we had more productive citizens, and fewer prison inmates. You seem to be saying that the only thing stopping prisoners from being productive members of society, is being in prison? You think if we let them all go, they'd all be productive citizens? Are you under the impression that we pick functioning citizens at random, and put them in prison?

"I’d do what I had to if my kid had that issue and I have no problem with giving addicts proper care and assistance."

Nobody has a problem with giving them "proper care". The question is, is it "proper care" to enable them to continue to do hard drugs?

"if it happens you’ll find out it’s not that simple."

When did I say its simple? When you kid's life is at stake you do what's right, even if it's not simple. Simple doesn't even factor into it.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"We pay for every person we imprison"

I am aware that it's not free. Every sane person is happy to pay taxes to keep some people in prison.

"far better to have them be functioning members of society than locked up."

I am pretty sure that most people who are in prison, are there specifically because they weren't acting like functioning members of society, prior to being put into prison..

I agree it would be better if we had more productive citizens, and fewer prison inmates. You seem to be saying that the only thing stopping prisoners from being productive members of society, is being in prison? You think if we let them all go, they'd all be productive citizens? Are you under the impression that we pick functioning citizens at random, and put them in prison?

"I’d do what I had to if my kid had that issue and I have no problem with giving addicts proper care and assistance."

Nobody has a problem with giving them "proper care". The question is, is it "proper care" to enable them to continue to do hard drugs?

"if it happens you’ll find out it’s not that simple."

When did I say its simple? When you kid's life is at stake you do what's right, even if it's not simple. Simple doesn't even factor into it.

So apparently you think we’re winning the war on drugs
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device