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Political Threads This section is for Political Threads - Enter at your own risk. If you say you don't want to see what someone posts - don't read it :hihi:

 
 
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Old 09-01-2021, 04:14 PM   #1
Jim in CT
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Plenty of ex military being critical on MSNBC and CNN also, but as you said, they weren't doing the planning.
Maybe they should have been doing the planning. The people doing the planning, bungled the last few days (but did a good job getting so many out before). That's not just the opinion of the biased right. It's the opinion of everyone not among the biased left. You guys, as always, can't see it, because none of you can say anything critical about any democrat. NEVER.
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Old 09-01-2021, 04:44 PM   #2
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Maybe they should have been doing the planning. The people doing the planning, bungled the last few days (but did a good job getting so many out before). That's not just the opinion of the biased right. It's the opinion of everyone not among the biased left. You guys, as always, can't see it, because none of you can say anything critical about any democrat. NEVER.
I don't see the military planners as being that political. They were given a policy decision by Trump (i.e. surrender to terrorists rather than broker an enforceable peace deal) that was essentially non-reversible. Granted, Biden campaigned on getting out also, but the military planners were just crafting a mission to execute policy and they were working from some bad assumptions.

The Taliban were going to take over regardless, it just happened much faster than anticipated. Amazing how our troops responded to get so many out so fast without massive carnage, not to diminish those that died in the one bombing.
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Old 09-01-2021, 05:06 PM   #3
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I don't see the military planners as being that political. They were given a policy decision by Trump (i.e. surrender to terrorists rather than broker an enforceable peace deal) that was essentially non-reversible. Granted, Biden campaigned on getting out also, but the military planners were just crafting a mission to execute policy and they were working from some bad assumptions.

The Taliban were going to take over regardless, it just happened much faster than anticipated. Amazing how our troops responded to get so many out so fast without massive carnage, not to diminish those that died in the one bombing.
trumps deal was conditions based, was it not? why was it non reversible? so many other trump policies were overturned.
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Old 09-01-2021, 05:18 PM   #4
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trumps deal was conditions based, was it not? why was it non reversible? so many other trump policies were overturned.
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Not really, it had some barely measurable concessions the Taliban weren't meeting under Trump even and by the time Biden took office most of the US troops had already left. I'm not sure how we could have put up an effective defense when the Afghan troops didn't want to fight and the Taliban had all the momentum.
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Old 09-01-2021, 05:28 PM   #5
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Not really, it had some barely measurable concessions the Taliban weren't meeting under Trump even and by the time Biden took office most of the US troops had already left. I'm not sure how we could have put up an effective defense when the Afghan troops didn't want to fight and the Taliban had all the momentum.
“barely measurable”.

one condition stated the taliban had to enter a peaceful, mutually agreed upon deal with the afghan government. that’s not “barely measurable”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axi...51bd47ed6.html

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Old 09-01-2021, 05:32 PM   #6
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“barely measurable”.

one condition stated the taliban had to enter a peaceful, mutually agreed upon deal with the afghan government. that’s not “barely measurable”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.axi...51bd47ed6.html

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Why didn't Trump enforce that before drawing down troops?
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Old 09-02-2021, 06:54 AM   #7
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Why didn't Trump enforce that before drawing down troops?
here's what honesty looks like Spence (honesty that you are incapable of)...

that's a good question (that's a statement you are incapable of making to a conservative). From what I saw, the agreement was supposed to be in place by the time we withdrew completely. Trump wasn't president when we withdrew completely.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's not fair to expect anyone to be clairvoyant. BUT here is what common sense tells me, they should have done.

You hold onto Bagram. It was built with defendability in mind, and they had many years to fortify it and figure out how to make it safe.

While (1) things are still stable, and (2) you are evacuating huge numbers of people, you use Kabul, as long as it's safe. But you hold onto Bagram, in case you need it. You plan for contingencies (at least, those of us not suffering from dementia plan for contingencies).
Got Stripers said many times here, that it was inevitable that things would descend into a "fall of Saigon" chaos, so if that was forseable, it follows that the Kabul airport would be impossible to function. By the time things go south, you don't have nearly as many people left to get out, and for sure you can get some of them out via Bagram.

The videos of the last days at the airport...you could look at the entirety of global military history, and not be able to find a more dangerous position to put 20 year-old E1s and E2s in. There is literally zero security, and I mean n-o-n-e. You have absolutely no idea of who is standing next to you.

i think the administration did a heck of a job getting so many out in the last month, they absolutely deserve credit for that. They also could not have done worse, preparing for, and managing, the last few days. I don't know how he could have done worse, unless Biden accidentally sat on the nuclear button and nuked the whole country.

As Got Stripers said, anyone could have seen the chaos at the end. We could not have been less prepared. The plan was "go out there and deal with the mob as best you can, and pray that no jihadists are walking among the mob". That was the best plan they could come up with.

As the liberal progressive democrat congressman Seth Moulton from Massachusetts said, it was preventable. It probably wasn't all preventable, but it could have been planned much, much better.

And for Biden to explicitly promise we'd stay until everyone was out and then to so completely walk away from that promise...at a minimum, he has earned the loss of serious trust. That's what happens when you make a promise and then you choose to break it. That emboldens our enemies, and will obviously make anyone think twice about sticking their necks out to help us.

In 2008, there was a senate delegation on a helicopter in Afghanistan, they had to set down in unsafe area during heavy snow. A Blackwater team, along with an Afghan interpreter, walked to them and led them to safety. Senator Joe Biden was on that helicopter. The interpreter who risked his life to rescue Biden, is still there, begging to have he and his family brought out.

Some loyalty.
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Old 09-01-2021, 05:27 PM   #8
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trumps deal was conditions based, was it not? why was it non reversible? so many other trump policies were overturned.
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yes it was condition based and Trump released 5000 prisoners as a condition . without consulting the Afghan Government .. could have Biden reversed it of course he could of then This agreement was no executive order. then move the goal posts again to he said but didn't he promised to leave.


But I am still waiting on those who are complaining that 100 citizens are left in country .. both republican and Democratic! How many US service Members are they willing to lose to get them out ? because clearly 13 marines was to many to get 125k out ..

But even if no marines lost their lives the message would be the same...

Last edited by wdmso; 09-01-2021 at 05:34 PM..
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Old 09-01-2021, 04:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jim in CT View Post
Maybe they should have been doing the planning. The people doing the planning, bungled the last few days (but did a good job getting so many out before). That's not just the opinion of the biased right. It's the opinion of everyone not among the biased left. You guys, as always, can't see it, because none of you can say anything critical about any democrat. NEVER.
Really Obama just made this war worse, happy now?
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