Schiff lost his marbles

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

No, there are not mountains of proven evidence of an actual crime. There is the proven fact that the money was delivered within the specified time frame and that Zelinsky said all was legal and he was not pressured or bribed.

First of all Floridaman admitted publicly that he has all the evidence and will not release it. The only innocent man in the world who hides exculpatory information.

Crime, you can start here
In the summer of 2019, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) withheld from obligation funds appropriated to the Department of Defense (DOD) for security assistance to Ukraine. In order to withhold the funds, OMB issued a series of nine apportionment schedules with footnotes that made all unobligated balances unavailable for obligation.

Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.

Read the press statement. https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf

As far as no pressure goes, you think Zelensky had a choice, that he could say he committed a corrupt act?
As a comedian and an actor, he was famous for his laser focus on the foibles of Ukrainian politicians. Zelensky chooses his words carefully. When he met with Trump, Zelensky knew that Ukrainians would be listening carefully, too.

Zelensky ran for the presidency on an anti-corruption platform, and won in a landslide. Admitting to giving in to pressure — or admitting to pressuring independent members of his government to conduct investigations — would mean not only losing bipartisan support from the U.S. Congress but also destroying his credibility among Ukrainians.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

First of all Floridaman admitted publicly that he has all the evidence and will not release it. The only innocent man in the world who hides exculpatory information.

You have not stated a fact. You have given your opinion.

There is sufficient exculpatory information already available in open sources. The burden is on the prosecution to provide sufficient evidence of guilt. That has not happened.

When it comes to the constitutional separation of powers, executive privilege would be eroded by submitting to requests that would abridge that power. There is already sufficient exculpatory evidence, so there is no need to endanger the power of executive privilege.

Crime, you can start here
In the summer of 2019, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) withheld from obligation funds appropriated to the Department of Defense (DOD) for security assistance to Ukraine. In order to withhold the funds, OMB issued a series of nine apportionment schedules with footnotes that made all unobligated balances unavailable for obligation.

Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.

Read the press statement. https://www.gao.gov/assets/710/703909.pdf

The money was given on time. The reason for temporary delay was a reasonable request under the circumstances to ask for some assurance that it would not be wasted on further corruption. Some may argue that it was not reasonable, others would say it was. The money was delivered on time without a quid pro quo.

As far as no pressure goes, you think Zelensky had a choice, that he could say he committed a corrupt act?
As a comedian and an actor, he was famous for his laser focus on the foibles of Ukrainian politicians. Zelensky chooses his words carefully. When he met with Trump, Zelensky knew that Ukrainians would be listening carefully, too.

Zelensky ran for the presidency on an anti-corruption platform, and won in a landslide. Admitting to giving in to pressure — or admitting to pressuring independent members of his government to conduct investigations — would mean not only losing bipartisan support from the U.S. Congress but also destroying his credibility among Ukrainians.

Zelensky's satements are facts. Your "interpretation" is conjecture.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Zelensky's satements are facts. Your "interpretation" is conjecture.

Executive privilege only works for certain people and things, it cannot be a protective blanket over all actions that the office wants to conceal, and as with other legal veils, once pierced it is moot and in any case cannot be used to conceal a crime.

[scottw]

I'm really concerned that we won't be able to fight the coming Russian invasion while at the same time fighting the ground war that trump started with iran a couple of weeks while at the same time preventing the takeover of Virginia by white supremacists and nazis

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by scottw

I'm really concerned that we won't be able to fight the coming Russian invasion while at the same time fighting the ground war that trump started with iran a couple of weeks while at the same time preventing the takeover of Virginia by white supremacists and nazis

meanwhile we’re all broke because the GOP tax cuts gave everything to the Koch brothers. Grim times, indeed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

meanwhile we’re all broke because the GOP tax cuts gave everything to the Koch brothers. Grim times, indeed.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

With the way Trump is running up the debt, the country will be broke. But hey it is a Repub. admin. so who cares.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by PaulS

With the way Trump is running up the debt, the country will be broke. But hey it is a Repub. admin. so who cares.

Uggghh . . . I know it has already been mentioned a few times, but . . . Congress is in charge of the debt. Just sayin.

[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by PaulS

With the way Trump is running up the debt, the country will be broke. But hey it is a Repub. admin. so who cares.

Republicans of old did have concerns about debt.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Executive privilege only works for certain people and things, it cannot be a protective blanket over all actions that the office wants to conceal, and as with other legal veils, once pierced it is moot and in any case cannot be used to conceal a crime.

It ain't been pierced and no crime has been established. I believe the Court would have to decide, not you.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

It ain't been pierced and no crime has been established. I believe the Court would have to decide, not you.

Conjecture, obviously.

Just remember, Democrats don't know what the withheld documents say. Maybe they say it was a perfect call or there was no quid pro quo. But if you care about the truth, you'd want the documents released.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Conjecture, obviously.

Just remember, Democrats don't know what the withheld documents say. Maybe they say it was a perfect call or there was no quid pro quo. But if you care about the truth, you'd want the documents released.

Maybe the truth has already been exposed. No need to keep beating a dead horse. Ahhhh . . . the maybe trail really has no end other than just stopping.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Maybe the truth has already been exposed. No need to keep beating a dead horse. Ahhhh . . . the maybe trail really has no end other than just stopping.

Floridaman's modus operandi has always been lawyer up, deny and lie. Just like he learned from Roy Cohn. That's not all he and Epstein learned from Cohn, but that is another sordid story.

That's how you get involved in 3500 lawsuits, not counting arbitration and need everyone to sign NDA's.

I have no reason to believe he has found a new way since he became Master of the Trumplicans and the evangelical's false idol.

He would like his Trumplicans to believe that anyone that contradicts his propaganda is dead to him, just look at what happened to Gaetz.
Though that one smells like a false flag op to me.

This is far from dead.