Sondland remembers

[Duke41]

Does the fact the Bidens son was on the board of a Ukrainian gas company at $50K a month mean anything in this equation? He is or was also on a board of some Chinese company as well. Would he have been on either without the influence of his Joe. Isn't this an important issue as well. There is a lot of shady
stuff going on in Congress. Lets go after all of them.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Duke41

Does the fact the Bidens son was on the board of a Ukrainian gas company at $50K a month mean anything in this equation? He is or was also on a board of some Chinese company as well. Would he have been on either without the influence of his Joe. Isn't this an important issue as well. There is a lot of shady
stuff going on in Congress. Lets go after all of them.

If Trump had a clue about how to manage a large organization he might have been able to do that.
Nobody would have been able to object if he had made it a goal to reduce corruption in our Government and the rest of the world.
A little push here or there and if evidence existed some politicians could have been caught up in it.
Instead he did a hokey secret investigation with Colludy and his stooges and tried to coerce Zelensky into saying he was investigating Biden and tangled most of his administration up in it.
Now he’s claiming his great concern with corruption is what lead him to do that.
🍑🤡
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Duke41

Does the fact the Bidens son was on the board of a Ukrainian gas company at $50K a month mean anything in this equation? He is or was also on a board of some Chinese company as well. Would he have been on either without the influence of his Joe. Isn't this an important issue as well. There is a lot of shady
stuff going on in Congress. Lets go after all of them.

Inappropriate but it isn't illegal and what part did dad have in this?

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Inappropriate but it isn't illegal and what part did dad have in this?

That thought only is acceptable when it applies to Republicans ..

Actions of a private citizen being compared to to the actions of POTUS

yet they have no evidence of wrongdoing by the private citizen which they gleefully ignore , yet insist its the same

But With trump they see no evil hear no evil and speak no evil .....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

That thought only is acceptable when it applies to Republicans ..

Actions of a private citizen being compared to to the actions of POTUS

yet they have no evidence of wrongdoing by the private citizen which they gleefully ignore , yet insist its the same

But With trump they see no evil hear no evil and speak no evil .....

what i see and hear, is that trump asked ukraine to do him a favor that could help him politically ( would also hurt him politically if they investigated and found nothing). even if we concede he used a quid pro quo ( still an if), there’s clear evidence of democrats doing the same thing.

so while i see the corruption there, the precedent has been set that it’s on. politicians don’t engage in who’s pro quo every day? vote for my bill and I’ll vote for yours?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

what i see and hear, is that trump asked ukraine to do him a favor that could help him politically ( would also hurt him politically if they investigated and found nothing). even if we concede he used a quid pro quo ( still an if), there’s clear evidence of democrats doing the same thing.

so while i see the corruption there, the precedent has been set that it’s on. politicians don’t engage in who’s pro quo every day? vote for my bill and I’ll vote for yours?
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All Trump was looking for was political ammunition, not an investigation and the truth. Read the deposition.

From Sondland's addendum to his testimony

In my October 17, 2019 prepared testimony and in my deposition, I made clear that I had understood sometime after our May 23, 2019, White House debriefing that scheduling a White House visit for President Zelensky was conditioned upon President Zelensky’s agreement to make a public anti-corruption statement.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

All Trump was looking for was political ammunition, not an investigation and the truth. Read the deposition.

From Sondland's addendum to his testimony

In my October 17, 2019 prepared testimony and in my deposition, I made clear that I had understood sometime after our May 23, 2019, White House debriefing that scheduling a White House visit for President Zelensky was conditioned upon President Zelensky’s agreement to make a public anti-corruption statement.

"All Trump was looking for was political ammunition, not an investigation and the truth"

(1) If the investigation showed Biden was innocent, Trump looks like an idiot. He had a reason to ask for the investigation, a reason to believe it would pay off for him. I'm not saying he asked out of pure civic duty. But just because uncovering liberal corruption helps him, doesn't mean he can never investigate democrats. He is the executive branch, that's his job.

(20 the senate democrats asked Ukraine to investigate Manafort and Trump. How was that not "looking for political ammunition"?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"All Trump was looking for was political ammunition, not an investigation and the truth"

(1) If the investigation showed Biden was innocent, Trump looks like an idiot. He had a reason to ask for the investigation, a reason to believe it would pay off for him. I'm not saying he asked out of pure civic duty. But just because uncovering liberal corruption helps him, doesn't mean he can never investigate democrats. He is the executive branch, that's his job.

What investigation? "conditioned upon President Zelensky’s agreement to make a public anti-corruption statement"

(20 the senate democrats asked Ukraine to investigate Manafort and Trump. How was that not "looking for political ammunition"?

The letter says and was bought about by reporting in the NYT that Ukraine had stopped several investigations into corruption, I thought investigating corruption was good.

"We are writing to express great concern about reports that your office has taken steps to impede cooperation with the investigation of United States Special counsel Robert Mueller. As strong advocates for a robust and close relationship with Ukraine, we believe that our cooperation should extend to such legal matters, regardless of politics. Ours is a relationship built on a foundation of respect for the rule of law and accountable democratic institutions. In four short years, Ukraine has made significant progress in building these institutions despite ongoing military, economic and political pressure from Moscow. We have supported that capacity-building process and are disappointed that some in Kyiv appear to have cast aside these principles in order to avoid the ire of President Trump. If these reports are true, we strongly encourage you to reverse course and halt any efforts to impede cooperation with this important investigation."

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Inappropriate but it isn't illegal and what part did dad have in this?

dad was obama’s point person in ukraine, at a time when his son got a lucrative position he wasn’t qualified for, at a company rumored to be corrupt.


that’s a coincidence? you’re a lot smarter than that.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

dad was obama’s point person in ukraine, at a time when his son got a lucrative position he wasn’t qualified for, at a company rumored to be corrupt.


that’s a coincidence? you’re a lot smarter than that.
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And you're a lot smarter to continuously try to defend this when there is zero evidence of anything illegal.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And you're a lot smarter to continuously try to defend this when there is zero evidence of anything illegal.

it needs to be investigated...you are working with zero facts

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

And you're a lot smarter to continuously try to defend this when there is zero evidence of anything illegal.

I never said Biden broke any laws.

Can you tell me, in plain English, what law Trump is accused of breaking regarding Ukraine?

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I never said Biden broke any laws.

Can you tell me, in plain English, what law Trump is accused of breaking regarding Ukraine?

There are at least 5 at this time.

1) Illegally soliciting campaign help from a foreign government

2) Bribery

3) Misappropriation

4) Conspiracy

5) Obstruction

They are all felonies.

I forgot abuse of office, it’s only a misdemeanor
Those come right after high crimes in the Constitution

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

There are at least 5 at this time.

1) Illegally soliciting campaign help from a foreign government

2) Bribery

3) Misappropriation

4) Conspiracy

5) Obstruction

They are all felonies.

Thats some list! Please specify how each of those apply to Trumps actions in the Ukraine, and more importantly, how they differ from the examples I've posted of Obama, Biden, and senate democrats asking for political favors from foreign governments, sometimes using quid pro quo very explicitly, sometimes asking for dirt on political opponents...why is it only impeachable when Trump does it?

Is it illegal for Hilary to ask the Justice Department for campaign help? Just curious. US attorney Durham will tell us soon enough.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Duke41

Does the fact the Bidens son was on the board of a Ukrainian gas company at $50K a month mean anything in this equation? He is or was also on a board of some Chinese company as well. Would he have been on either without the influence of his Joe. Isn't this an important issue as well. There is a lot of shady
stuff going on in Congress. Lets go after all of them.

If you are worried about nepotism then the other part of this equation is what is currently going on in the WH and Trump's administration.
It's far more than 50K a month and has drastic effects on national security.

To start, Floridaman set the ethical compass for his presidency low by failing to cut his own ties to the Trump Organization and not, as every recent president has done, releasing his taxes.

Then we move on to the daughter and son in law.
Jared's sister made news by promising US visas to rich Chinese in exchange for $500,000 investments in Kushner property.
Kushners’ company received an investment nearing $30m from Menora Mivtachim, one of Israel’s largest insurers, in the spring of 2017. This was shortly before the president and his son-in-law, who has been brokering Middle East peace, visited the country and before the announcement that the American embassy would be moving to Jerusalem.
Kushner also got at least four loans from Bank Hapoalim, Israel’s largest bank and currently under a US Department of Justice criminal investigation.
And there is 666 Fifth Avenue.............

Then we can go to his cabinet and Congress with the same stroke.

Chao has overseen the allocation of nearly $80 million in federal grants to Kentucky during her time as transportation secretary, designating a special intermediary to help the state navigate this funding process, a resource that few states have. It raises questions about whether Chao was treating Kentucky differently due to her relationship with McConnell.

This will fill books someday of how and why America failed.

George Washington warned against nepotism in America, refusing to give his own family members plum jobs and commissions precisely because that represented everything the revolutionaries loathed about Europe.

The Framers, all of whom were enmeshed and co-mingled and conflicted with other elite framers, understood that their children weren’t princelings and their families weren’t monarchs.