The Corrosion of Conservatism

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Anecdotal evidence is worth as much as fishing reports
I guess you missed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act negotiated by Clinton and Gingrich in 1997
A provision of PRWORA made immigrants entering the United States ineligible for federal welfare funds for five years after arriving in the United States.
Illegal immigrants in 2015 paid 23.6 Billion in income taxes and 9 Billion in Social Security that they can never collect, at least that's what the IRS says. Quite a drain
Did you know, Immigrants start roughly half of the new businesses in the US
Here's a few of the big ones for you
Tesla
Google
Yahoo
Chobani
Panda Express

Again, I cannot imagine what point you are trying to make, since no sane person claims that immigrants sit around and do nothing. Of course, many contribute something. Some contribute a ton. The question is, as a group, do they pay their own way? Their answer, of course, is no. Because for every Elan Musk, there are multiple families on welfare, and on Medicaid, with kids in public school, who cost a fortune.

I'm not arguing against immigration, I'm happy to pay taxes to help out law abiding immigrants. The point I am making, which you can't seem to grasp, is that immigration as a whole I snot a source of surplus for us, it's a big financial strain.

The links you posted above talked about the benefits of immigration., They didn't mention the costs - welfare, Medicaid, public housing, and especially, educating their kids. All of that is very expensive.

Nothing you have said on this issue, nothing, even comes close to responding to what I'm saying. I concede there are immigrants who are a bargain for us. But as a group? Very expensive.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Again, I cannot imagine what point you are trying to make

I think Panda Express played for the Red Sox briefly

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Again, I cannot imagine what point you are trying to make, since no sane person claims that immigrants sit around and do nothing. Of course, many contribute something. Some contribute a ton. The question is, as a group, do they pay their own way? Their answer, of course, is no. Because for every Elan Musk, there are multiple families on welfare, and on Medicaid, with kids in public school, who cost a fortune.
How much of your public school tuition bill do you fund? In CT, I think it's 16K a year. How many kids do you have?

I'm not arguing against immigration, I'm happy to pay taxes to help out law abiding immigrants. The point I am making, which you can't seem to grasp, is that immigration as a whole I snot a source of surplus for us, it's a big financial strain.

The links you posted above talked about the benefits of immigration., They didn't mention the costs - welfare, Medicaid, public housing, and especially, educating their kids. All of that is very expensive.

Nothing you have said on this issue, nothing, even comes close to responding to what I'm saying. I concede there are immigrants who are a bargain for us. But as a group? Very expensive.

Are you combining legal and illegal immigration?
The Wharton model states pretty clearly what the costs and benefits are, all you have to do is read it.
I grasp what you are claiming but your argument is incorrect, if you are talking about legal immigrants.
Few parents actually pay the cost of public education for their children, it is a cost that we as a society choose to fund.

If you want to cite facts with sources that's fine but to just say You know is a waste of time.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Are you combining legal and illegal immigration?
The Wharton model states pretty clearly what the costs and benefits are, all you have to do is read it.
I grasp what you are claiming but your argument is incorrect, if you are talking about legal immigrants.
Few parents actually pay the cost of public education for their children, it is a cost that we as a society choose to fund.

If you want to cite facts with sources that's fine but to just say You know is a waste of time.

I'm in favor or legal immigration. I think that penniless, unskilled immigrants, whether they come legally or illegally, are a huge drain.

"How much of your public school tuition bill do you fund? In CT, I think it's 16K a year. How many kids do you have?"

I have 3 kids in public school, costs my town about 39k a year. I pay about 10k a year to my town in property taxes on my house, cars, and camper. So right now, I'm a drain. But we lived here, paying taxes, for many years before we had kids, and will be here hopefully for many years after, so in the end, I'll pay my own way. But illegals, and many legal immigrants who don't pay as much as me in taxes, will never cover their own bill. That's what the math is. As I've said, I'm happy to pay my share to help those who can't afford to pay their own share. But it's utter nonsense to claim that most immigrants, especially illegals, will pay their own way.

"Few parents actually pay the cost of public education for their children, it is a cost that we as a society choose to fund."

True. But having more illegal hispanic immigrants, who pay less taxes and have more children, makes it a bigger drain, not less of a drain.

"I grasp what you are claiming but your argument is incorrect"

So FL and CA are seeing a windfall, not a drain on their economy, from illegal immigration. Gotcha.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm in favor or legal immigration. I think that penniless, unskilled immigrants, whether they come legally or illegally, are a huge drain.

"How much of your public school tuition bill do you fund? In CT, I think it's 16K a year. How many kids do you have?"

I have 3 kids in public school, costs my town about 39k a year. I pay about 10k a year to my town in property taxes on my house, cars, and camper. So right now, I'm a drain. But we lived here, paying taxes, for many years before we had kids, and will be here hopefully for many years after, so in the end, I'll pay my own way. But illegals, and many legal immigrants who don't pay as much as me in taxes, will never cover their own bill. That's what the math is. As I've said, I'm happy to pay my share to help those who can't afford to pay their own share. But it's utter nonsense to claim that most immigrants, especially illegals, will pay their own way.

"Few parents actually pay the cost of public education for their children, it is a cost that we as a society choose to fund."

True. But having more illegal hispanic immigrants, who pay less taxes and have more children, makes it a bigger drain, not less of a drain.

"I grasp what you are claiming but your argument is incorrect"

So FL and CA are seeing a windfall, not a drain on their economy, from illegal immigration. Gotcha.

I don't see CA complaining, do you?
Florida is going to need all the labor it can get to rebuild, they might take more cheap labor
Look at illegal immigration prior to 9/11 and after, our enforcement changed patterns radically and basically made it so they had to stay because of the cost of sneaking in as opposed to walking across, back for a while and across again. I had Canadian drywall guys doing it for years, no issues.