NATO

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Well be specific then
Do you believe we should be part of NATO

I've been very specific about my basic beliefs regarding the USA. I answer a lot of questions directed at me. You mostly shy away from direct answers. You like to make suggestions. I have tried to discuss a few threads you started and you just went away. I tried to be specific in your threads re health care. You brought up various worldwide statistics as if that was supposed to suggest some kind of specificity. And had no direct opinion, for instance on the market based clinics that were far more affordable than most of the world wide state models of health care that you suggested, I guess, could be copied.

So I am not inclined to answer questions by you since it seems to be a one way exercise. You ask, but you don't answer.

But I'll give it a try here. If Europe was really united, it would not need the U.S. to be a partner in defense against Russia. The EU has far more wealth and research capability than Russia. A united Europe that had the will and desire, should be able to militarily crush Russia. If it doesn't have the will and desire to defend itself, why should we spend blood and treasure to do it.

Our federal government should spend only on those things it is given the power to do under the Constitution. Military defense of the country is one of the main constitutional duties of the federal government. We should quit nationally spending trillions of dollars on funding our European style administrative state, and revert to being American. We should be powerful enough to defend ourselves against any threat.

And if anyone wishes to freely trade with us on a mutually advantageous basis, welcome. And if they join us as freedom loving, free market people, it could well be in our interest to mutually join in defensive or offensive alliances against those who wish to do us harm. But let it be known that there is zero tolerance for those who illegitimately harm one American. That we are willing and able to assert all out military might against those who would wrongly cut off the head of one American.

Right now, Europe is a mess imploding on itself. And that's not because of Trump or the U.S. The notion that Trump is undermining some notion of trust by sticking our boot up Europe's lazy, selfish, socialist azz to stir it out of its self-indulgent stupor, is pathetic demagoguery. If we're to spend time, effort, money, and manpower to provide comfort against Russia, while we are becoming more like the Euros in this country, that does not make for a good alliance.

I don't think we should be a part of NATO if trade is not free and the Euros depend more on us than themselves.

Actually, an alliance with Eastern European countries who are fervent in their desire to participate against a Russian threat would be, in my estimation, a healthier alliance than NATO as it has become.

Is the USA an important part of the
current world order?

When I mentioned the world order on this forum, it was dismissed by "liberals" as right wing kookiness. I think the USA is important, so long as it maintains its unique society based on the Declaration and its Constitution, world order or not. If we become like the rest of the world, we are of no particular importance as a country.

Should the USA be involved in issues outside our borders?

See above.

[wdmso]

then off to England and says this

Trump

Europe as a whole was "losing its culture" because of immigration from the Middle East and Africa.


What a statement from the POTUS!! the Leader the American people from land of Immigrants .... making new friend where ever he goes

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Well be specific then
Do you believe we should be part of NATO
Is the USA an important part of the
current world order?
Should the USA be involved in issues outside our borders?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Yes, we should be part of NATO and like all good partnerships, they only work when everyone pitches in - most of Europe needs to step in for THEIR protection.

Originally Posted by wdmso

then off to England and says this

Trump

Europe as a whole was "losing its culture" because of immigration from the Middle East and Africa.


What a statement from the POTUS!! the Leader the American people from land of Immigrants .... making new friend where ever he goes

Europe is losing its culture to a degree. Immigrants really need to assimilate, those that do tend to do well, those that don't assimilate tend be disruptive to themselves or the host nation.

For all of our problems, the USA has done a better job of assimilating than other countries. Though in recent decades the assimilation part seems not as strong (how much is the lens of history, how much the encouragement of identity politics)

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Yes, we should be part of NATO and like all good partnerships, they only work when everyone pitches in - most of Europe needs to step in for THEIR protection.

Sure everyone should pitch in but this notion that NATO is freeloading off the US is absurd. Military spending in the EU alone dwarfs Russia. The US has been the only nation to ever benefit from Article 5 directly and I'd be willing to wager NATO inhibiting westward expansion of communism over the past 1/2 century has benefited the US more than any other nation by far.

Trump is either just creating creating chaos so he can claim to be a savior or genuinely working to undermine the institution. Neither is a good thing and will do lasting harm.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by wdmso

then off to England and says this

Trump

Europe as a whole was "losing its culture" because of immigration from the Middle East and Africa.


What a statement from the POTUS!! the Leader the American people from land of Immigrants .... making new friend where ever he goes

You know why we press 1 for English?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

You know why we press 1 for English?
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

there are some interesting reading on the topic just press 1


but in reality Spanish-language functionality in customer service reflects corporate priorities for national companies
.
For companies, the adoption of Spanish in customer service calls is an example of “market-driven multiculturalism.” As we’ve seen with corporate America’s blanket support of the gay rights movement, capitalism looks out for minorities because minorities are customers. “They’re just trying to make more money,”


Grew up seeing this
nós falamos portugues every where.. I still have friends who's parents speak very little english.. the kids they speak both I clearly understand it take 2 to 3 generations for english to be primary and Americanized 1 generation ...

13% of the us are Spanish speakers 3.337 million live in Puerto Rico its all about making money

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by spence

Sure everyone should pitch in but this notion that NATO is freeloading off the US is absurd. Military spending in the EU alone dwarfs Russia. The US has been the only nation to ever benefit from Article 5 directly and I'd be willing to wager NATO inhibiting westward expansion of communism over the past 1/2 century has benefited the US more than any other nation by far.

Trump is either just creating creating chaos so he can claim to be a savior or genuinely working to undermine the institution. Neither is a good thing and will do lasting harm.

Spence, European NATO members, excepting the UK, have not met their baselines for over 20 years. Only a couple nations in the past year or two have hit the 2% baseline.

If OBama was so magical he would have been able to get Europe to manage their own defense spending to meet minimum safe levels eight years ago. This mostly benefits Europe. Europe is strong enough and wealthy enough to meet THEIR obligations for their own defense.

But this is has been a serious topic of people in Diplo/Security for a decade plus - you probably know that - and it came LONG before Trump.



And yes Trump is doing it in typical miserable fashion

[spence]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Spence, European NATO members, excepting the UK, have not met their baselines for over 20 years. Only a couple nations in the past year or two have hit the 2% baseline.

If OBama was so magical he would have been able to get Europe to manage their own defense spending to meet minimum safe levels eight years ago. This mostly benefits Europe. Europe is strong enough and wealthy enough to meet THEIR obligations for their own defense.

But this is has been a serious topic of people in Diplo/Security for a decade plus - you probably know that - and it came LONG before Trump.

But - and you probably know this - that members have been paying more in recent years and most have reasonable plans to meet their goals. The 2% number is a stake in the ground anyway, I've read some concern that NATO at full 2%+ could lead to over-militarization of Europe.

What's more worrisome is that Trump doesn't seem to understand 1) how NATO even works and 2) why it's important. The money issues is really meaningless to him, he just wants to be disruptive because he doesn't believe in multi-lateral institutions.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Spence, European NATO members, excepting the UK, have not met their baselines for over 20 years. Only a couple nations in the past year or two have hit the 2% baseline.

thought that deserved repeating