Executive Order background checks

[Rockport24]

Yeah when the murders continue in Chicago after all of these new "orders" maybe then Obama will realize that it wasn't the guns that were the problem...

Here's one thing that I struggle with: it seems indisputable that suicides are more prevalent in areas with the most guns. We need to address this mental health issue somehow and the amount of deaths by guns would go down significantly simply because of the suicide factor. Here's a bit of research on the suicide thing: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/fi...rship-and-use/

As Ross mentioned though, this mental health thing can go very wrong if done incorrectly. For example, if you were treated for any mental health issue are you excluded from buying a gun? Where does it end?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

Yeah when the murders continue in Chicago after all of these new "orders" maybe then Obama will realize that it wasn't the guns that were the problem...

Here's one thing that I struggle with: it seems indisputable that suicides are more prevalent in areas with the most guns. We need to address this mental health issue somehow and the amount of deaths by guns would go down significantly simply because of the suicide factor. Here's a bit of research on the suicide thing: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/fi...rship-and-use/

As Ross mentioned though, this mental health thing can go very wrong if done incorrectly. For example, if you were treated for any mental health issue are you excluded from buying a gun? Where does it end?

"the amount of deaths by guns would go down significantly simply because of the suicide factor."

Interesting. I would have thought (and I would have been wrong) that suicide has nothing to do with availability of guns, since there are so many other ways to commit suicide, and many of those are preferable to me over gun.

"We need to address this mental health issue somehow"

I think w eknow how - we need to adopt the rules we used to have, which made it easier to commit someone before they hurt themselves or others. We know how to do that, we just don't have the stomach. Which is fine - if we want to give these people the freedom to walk freely, that means we are agreeing to accept the fact that a small number of them will do horrendous things.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

Here's one thing that I struggle with: it seems indisputable that suicides are more prevalent in areas with the most guns. We need to address this mental health issue somehow and the amount of deaths by guns would go down significantly simply because of the suicide factor. Here's a bit of research on the suicide thing: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/fi...rship-and-use/

I've personally known 4 people that committed suicide.....none of them shot themselves. They all hung themselves.

Suicide is more prevalent where depression is......not where more guns are.

Suicides by guns are more prevalent where guns are......because it's convenient.

If someone wants to commit suicide they will do it.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Suicides by guns are more prevalent where guns are......because it's convenient.

If someone wants to commit suicide they will do it.
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Studies have shown that if the person fails in the attempt or is prevented from killing themselves, they are not that likely to try again. With a gun they are more likely to succeed in their attempt.
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[spence]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Studies have shown that if the person fails in the attempt or is prevented from killing themselves, they are not that likely to try again. With a gun they are more likely to succeed in their attempt.
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The link I posted earlier on Australia found that with fewer guns not only did the suicide rate by firearm go way down but the rate of suicide fell also. I'd wager for exactly the same reason.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

The link I posted earlier on Australia found that with fewer guns not only did the suicide rate by firearm go way down but the rate of suicide fell also. I'd wager for exactly the same reason.

We should spend the money on the veterans that are killing themselves if that's his concern
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

We should spend the money on the veterans that are killing themselves if that's his concern
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I agree it's a worthy cause but that would require Republicans to stop thwarting VA funding.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by spence

I agree it's a worthy cause but that would require Republicans to stop thwarting VA funding.

Seems to of found the money for this useless Executive Order
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

Studies have shown that if the person fails in the attempt or is prevented from killing themselves, they are not that likely to try again. With a gun they are more likely to succeed in their attempt.
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Did you ever think that is because now people know they need counseling now, where before it came out of nowhere.

People who fail or are prevented probably also didn't want to succeed.....they were looking for help.

If somebody truly wants to die.....they will.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Did you ever think that is because now people know they need counseling now, where before it came out of nowhere.

People who fail or are prevented probably also didn't want to succeed.....they were looking for help.

If somebody truly wants to die.....they will.
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I think it goes back to people making a quick decision (say you unexpectedly get fired and think your life is over). Once you have not succeeded you'll probably get some help. With a gun there are probably few 2nd chances.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I think it goes back to people making a quick decision (say you unexpectedly get fired and think your life is over). Once you have not succeeded you'll probably get some help. With a gun there are probably few 2nd chances.
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and sometimes when you fail you're #^&#^&#^&#^&ed up for the rest of your life....

http://frater.com/suicidelist.html

and not a lot of wiggle room on some of these methods either....

http://lostallhope.com/suicide-metho...lethal-methods

9 out of 10 times when you try hanging yourself you succeed....and the other 1 probably doesn't re-try it again because they can only eat soup through a straw due to the irreparable brain damage they suffered...

[Slipknot]

watch this and learn the truth

https://www.nranews.com/series/wayne...kground-checks

[JohnR]

Originally Posted by Rockport24

As Ross mentioned though, this mental health thing can go very wrong if done incorrectly. For example, if you were treated for any mental health issue are you excluded from buying a gun? Where does it end?

This is where it gets interesting. For example, IIRC if you were prescribed Wellbutrin as a smoking cessation aid - which was also an anti-depression drug - you could be listed as having mental health issues. So that is one tiny loophole / gotcha whatever you want to call it. Is this another instance where the devil is in the details?

[DZ]

The way I look at it is if these new rules won't make a difference anyway then no one should have a problem with them. The left were thrown a bone that they think will make a difference - the right say the new orders won't make a difference anyway. No constitutional rights were violated. Everyone wins.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by DZ

The way I look at it is if these new rules won't make a difference anyway then no one should have a problem with them. The left were thrown a bone that they think will make a difference - the right say the new orders won't make a difference anyway. No constitutional rights were violated. Everyone wins.

It will be interesting to see how this is implemented. This Administration has a history of not being totally upfront .
I would bet all gun sales will now have to go through a licensed dealer which means you won't be able to transfer a gun as an individual . Thats going to cost you money and time but what the hell , we all have plenty of that .
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by DZ

The way I look at it is if these new rules won't make a difference anyway then no one should have a problem with them. The left were thrown a bone that they think will make a difference - the right say the new orders won't make a difference anyway. No constitutional rights were violated. Everyone wins.

The only people who don't win, are the law-abiding people in places like Chicago, who deserve better than a few regualations that will allow Obama to spike the football, but do nothing to make those people safer.