New Libya thread....

[buckman]

Spence the more that comes out about this the more upsetting it becomes. 4 people were killed and our country did nothing before it happened and while they were being killed and asking for help
But I'll wager that before the election,the administration lobs a few missles declares victory just to gain a few votes
Sad
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[spence]

Originally Posted by buckman

Spence the more that comes out about this the more upsetting it becomes. 4 people were killed and our country did nothing before it happened and while they were being killed and asking for helpPosted from my iPhone/Mobile device

I think the information paints a mixed picture. There were certainly requests for help but also there's a lot of contradictory information that the security situation while deteriorating wasn't as bad.

As we've discussed, the security requests that were made wouldn't have likely had any impact on the attack.

Libya isn't Afghanistan.

Pretty much all the violence has been local militias jockeying for position. While the government doesn't have much military authority, the various groups did rapidly come together, form a government and held real elections.

Perhaps more importantly, the people appear to have a pretty favorable view of the United States. Did you forget that a few days after the attack thousands of Libyans protested the attack and took over the Islamist headquarters?

Decrying attack, protesters overtake Islamist group's HQ in Benghazi - CNN.com

The intelligence released continues to support the theory that this was an attack of opportunity, not a carefully planned operation. It's still terrorism and 4 Americans are still dead...but it should be taken for what it is and not what some would like it to be.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I think the information paints a mixed picture. There were certainly requests for help but also there's a lot of contradictory information that the security situation while deteriorating wasn't as bad.

As we've discussed, the security requests that were made wouldn't have likely had any impact on the attack.

Libya isn't Afghanistan.

Pretty much all the violence has been local militias jockeying for position. While the government doesn't have much military authority, the various groups did rapidly come together, form a government and held real elections.

Perhaps more importantly, the people appear to have a pretty favorable view of the United States. Did you forget that a few days after the attack thousands of Libyans protested the attack and took over the Islamist headquarters?

Decrying attack, protesters overtake Islamist group's HQ in Benghazi - CNN.com

The intelligence released continues to support the theory that this was an attack of opportunity, not a carefully planned operation. It's still terrorism and 4 Americans are still dead...but it should be taken for what it is and not what some would like it to be.

-spence

"As we've discussed, the security requests that were made wouldn't have likely had any impact on the attack."

Who discussed this? Everyone who does this for a living, and who works there, thought more security would help. But you, Spence, know better. Got it.

A couple dozen trained security forces could easily, very easily, have turned this into a turkey shoot for the Americans.

But now Spence is an authority on close-quarter infantry tactics.

I'm sure that somewhere on the Huffington Post, Spebce can find an atrticle written by a left wing nut that says that additional security would not have made any difference. Anyone who says that, is lying on behalf of President Obama. We know that 2 teams of 12 or 14 men each were recently removed from that embassy. 24 well-trained Americans, with good defensive cover, could have made an enormous, enormous difference. That's EXACTLY why those who actually know something about these things, requested that extra security.

Stevens would almost certainly be alive today if those teams had remained in place. I'm not saying Obama is personally to blame for removing those teams. But someoone is.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

A couple dozen trained security forces could easily, very easily, have turned this into a turkey shoot for the Americans.

Perhaps, but I don't believe there was ever a request for this. The only I'm aware of was to extend a 16 member security team based in Tripoli. At best this may have added one or two members to the team in Benghazi I'd assume with only light arms.

With your field experience do you think this would have made a substantial difference against a much larger force (estimated at 125 men) with heavier weapons in an unhardened building?

Obama has said it was a screw up, but there's a big difference between a screw up and a cover up.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Perhaps, but I don't believe
The only I'm aware of
I'd assume

Obama has said it was a screw up, but there's a big difference between a screw up and a cover up.

-spence

the State Dept screwed up, the Obama Admin has been covering up for political reasons and you just keep making it up as you go along

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

the State Dept screwed up, the Obama Admin has been covering up for political reasons and you just keep making it up as you go along

Ok, I think you should try 4:1 now.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Ok, I think you should try 4:1 now.

-spence

genius.......Bidenesque

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Perhaps, but I don't believe there was ever a request for this. The only I'm aware of was to extend a 16 member security team based in Tripoli. At best this may have added one or two members to the team in Benghazi I'd assume with only light arms.

With your field experience do you think this would have made a substantial difference against a much larger force (estimated at 125 men) with heavier weapons in an unhardened building?

Obama has said it was a screw up, but there's a big difference between a screw up and a cover up.

-spence

Spence, the guy in charge of state department security in the Mideast, said that 2 teams (either 12 or 14 guys each) were removed from the Bengazi embassy, AGAINST HIS WISHES.

24 extra trained Americans, compared to the 2 SEALs who were there?

I'm not into predicting things on a 'what if' basis. But there is an enormous difference between 2 defenders and 26 defenders.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Apparently the CIA couldn't let go of the 'Movie' either.

"WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama was told in his daily intelligence briefing for more than a week after the consulate siege in Benghazi that the assault grew out of a spontaneous protest, despite conflicting reports from witnesses and other sources that began to cast doubt on the accuracy of that assessment almost from the start. New details about the contents of the President's Daily Brief, which haven't been reported previously, show that the Central Intelligence Agency didn't adjust the classified assessment until Sept. 22, fueling tensions between the administration and the agency. "
Intelligence Stressed Libya Protest Scenario - WSJ.com


This doesn't change the debate about security, which may be a fair argument, but does give some context to the 'cover-up'....

[buckman]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Apparently the CIA couldn't let go of the 'Movie' either.

"WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama was told in his daily intelligence briefing for more than a week after the consulate siege in Benghazi that the assault grew out of a spontaneous protest, despite conflicting reports from witnesses and other sources that began to cast doubt on the accuracy of that assessment almost from the start. New details about the contents of the President's Daily Brief, which haven't been reported previously, show that the Central Intelligence Agency didn't adjust the classified assessment until Sept. 22, fueling tensions between the administration and the agency. "
Intelligence Stressed Libya Protest Scenario - WSJ.com


This doesn't change the debate about security, which may be a fair argument, but does give some context to the 'cover-up'....

Pathetic . Director Petraeus should resign
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[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, the guy in charge of state department security in the Mideast, said that 2 teams (either 12 or 14 guys each) were removed from the Bengazi embassy, AGAINST HIS WISHES.

24 extra trained Americans, compared to the 2 SEALs who were there?

I'm not into predicting things on a 'what if' basis. But there is an enormous difference between 2 defenders and 26 defenders.

The embassy is in Tripoli where the security teams are stationed. I believe it was one team of 16.

Also, the security team in Benghazi had more that 2 agents.

There are detailed accounts online.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

The embassy is in Tripoli where the security teams are stationed. I believe it was one team of 16.

Also, the security team in Benghazi had more that 2 agents.

There are detailed accounts online.
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Yes there are. Here's one.

Congress to probe security flaws for Libya diplomats - CBS News

Lt Colonel Wood is in charge of embassy security in that area. A total of 22 special forces security personal were removed from the embassy in August, despite the fact that Wood asked for "more" security, not "less".

"We tried to illustrate...to show them how dangerous and how volatile and just unpredictable that whole environment was over there. So to decrease security in the face of that really is... it's just unbelievable," Wood said."

Sorry Spence. Someone really screwed this up, and that screw up quite possibly resulted in the deaths of 4 superb Americans. Worse, your hero went to great lengths to portray this incident as something other than what it was, to minimize how incompetent he would look. Obama likley isn't personally responsible for the lack of security, but he is 100% responsible for the lies that followed.

Spin that away, Spence.