Trump Ally Roger Stone Gets 40 Months for Lying, Witness-Tampering

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

His campaign is not guilty of crimes.

You can’t keep them after they’re convicted.
Don’t worry though, the activity continues, that’s how criminal organizations work.

This is not about Trump protecting his friends. This is about Trump protecting Trump. Keep your mouth shut and you’ll be taken care of. This is how mobsters rule.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Sadly neither the right nor the left seem interested in doing this. All they want is to dismantle the other side at ANY COST.

The motivation behind the conflict between both sides is the issue. Trump and Biden are not the issue. The reasons behind the conflict to win and destroy the other side are either to keep what is left of our founding constitutional form of limited central government power and restoring what portions of that form are lost, or to finish the transformation of that system into an administrative state run by experts which totally dominates governance in this country in which states are merely adjuncts to the will of that centralized, pretty much unlimited, power.

That is the simple, Cliff Notes style version of what we're ultimately voting on. Trump and Biden are merely bit players who come and soon go (although professional politicians like Biden seem to hang on forever). They mean little more than being the figurehead for the real agenda. Their personalities, strengths and weaknesses, accomplishments and failures are not much more than lipstick.

Voting for the man in this election may actually be voting against which type of government you want. Be sure that your eyes are on the prize in this election, not on the stylish purse that holds it.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by detbuch

The motivation behind the conflict between both sides is the issue. Trump and Biden are not the issue. The reasons behind the conflict to win and destroy the other side are either to keep what is left of our founding constitutional form of limited central government power and restoring what portions of that form are lost, or to finish the transformation of that system into an administrative state run by experts which totally dominates governance in this country in which states are merely adjuncts to the will of that centralized, pretty much unlimited, power.

That is the simple, Cliff Notes style version of what we're ultimately voting on. Trump and Biden are merely bit players who come and soon go (although professional politicians like Biden seem to hang on forever). They mean little more than being the figurehead for the real agenda. Their personalities, strengths and weaknesses, accomplishments and failures are not much more than lipstick.

Voting for the man in this election may actually be voting against which type of government you want. Be sure that your eyes are on the prize in this election, not on the stylish purse that holds it.

This current administration in no way, represents anything resembling the constitutional form intended by the founders. And your statement that it purports to return to limited central governance is a joke, right? Limited central governance? With Donald J Trump? Pushing his way front and center on every issue. Dismissing experts in the field of disease and science so he can make a gut call.... Are you truly ready to hang your hat on this current administration? My eye is on the prize. I am going to vote against what the current administration has presented, which more closely resembles a nationalist dictatorship.

[scottw]

just sayin'...


"One-time defenders of unsavory Clinton and Obama pardons are outraged by the president’s commutation of his old associate’s 40-month sentence.

Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for felony distribution of cocaine. And a key witness in the Whitewater scandal for which he and Hillary Clinton were under investigation. And three others convicted in independent counsel Ken Starr’s probe. And Marc Rich, in what was a straight up political payoff. And his CIA director. And his HUD secretary. And eight people convicted in an investigation of his Agriculture Department.

Clinton also commuted the sentences of convicted terrorists, some of whom hadn’t even asked for clemency. Shameless as he was, though, even he couldn’t bring himself to pardon Oscar Lopez Rivera, the defiantly unrepentant FALN leader.

President Obama took care of that.

Obama also commuted the sentence of a U.S. soldier who passed top-secret information to WikiLeaks. He pardoned his former Joint Chiefs of Staff vice chairman, who’d been convicted of making false statements about a leak of classified information to the New York Times. And when he couldn’t get Congress to amend federal drug laws the way he wanted them amended, Obama used the pardon power to slash hundreds of sentences, under an executive initiative later sharply criticized by the Obama-appointed DOJ inspector general.

I can’t get too whipped up over President Trump’s commutation of Roger Stone’s 40-month sentence for non-violent criminal obstruction of a bogusly based and ridiculously over-prosecuted investigation.

Not under circumstances in which jail-house doors have been swung open all over the country by federal, state, and local governments, which are using the coronavirus pandemic as a rationale to release both hardened criminals and elderly convicts (i.e., those around Stone’s age)."

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by scottw

just sayin'...


"One-time defenders of unsavory Clinton and Obama pardons are outraged by the president’s commutation of his old associate’s 40-month sentence.

Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother for felony distribution of cocaine. And a key witness in the Whitewater scandal for which he and Hillary Clinton were under investigation. And three others convicted in independent counsel Ken Starr’s probe. And Marc Rich, in what was a straight up political payoff. And his CIA director. And his HUD secretary. And eight people convicted in an investigation of his Agriculture Department.

Clinton also commuted the sentences of convicted terrorists, some of whom hadn’t even asked for clemency. Shameless as he was, though, even he couldn’t bring himself to pardon Oscar Lopez Rivera, the defiantly unrepentant FALN leader.

President Obama took care of that.

Obama also commuted the sentence of a U.S. soldier who passed top-secret information to WikiLeaks. He pardoned his former Joint Chiefs of Staff vice chairman, who’d been convicted of making false statements about a leak of classified information to the New York Times. And when he couldn’t get Congress to amend federal drug laws the way he wanted them amended, Obama used the pardon power to slash hundreds of sentences, under an executive initiative later sharply criticized by the Obama-appointed DOJ inspector general.

I can’t get too whipped up over President Trump’s commutation of Roger Stone’s 40-month sentence for non-violent criminal obstruction of a bogusly based and ridiculously over-prosecuted investigation.

Not under circumstances in which jail-house doors have been swung open all over the country by federal, state, and local governments, which are using the coronavirus pandemic as a rationale to release both hardened criminals and elderly convicts (i.e., those around Stone’s age)."

Denial is a wonderful thing... or the ability to only use 1 or 2 pardons from previous adminstrations leave out Bush. And not see a pattern in Trumps 25 pardons and 11 commutations.... just saying
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Denial is a wonderful thing...
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denial?

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by scottw

just sayin'...


I can’t get too whipped up over President Trump’s commutation of Roger Stone’s 40-month sentence for non-violent criminal obstruction of a bogusly based and ridiculously over-prosecuted investigation.

Not under circumstances in which jail-house doors have been swung open all over the country by federal, state, and local governments, which are using the coronavirus pandemic as a rationale to release both hardened criminals and elderly convicts (i.e., those around Stone’s age)."

Here is a perfect example of where I feel independent thinking over partisan politics is needed... I agree that in the grand scope of things, Stone's commutation won't be an important historical event. (Just another example of why this POTUS is a horrible human being.) As for releasing so many from prison? I can see the compassionate argument there. Heck, the 41 year old son of a man I have used as a sub contractor, died in a state run lock up. Three days and he was gone. Dead. He was in for stealing from parking meters.... Not his first offense mind you, but you get my drift. Compassionate releases to fit the crime, I am ok with that. Not ok with the release of the animals who have already raped and killed again, after being released under the pandemic heading.
So what I am trying to portray is that some good old fashioned negotiation skills are needed here, in American government. Neither party has all the answers. We, as a country, still must be able to police and protect the people from the rioting and looting that goes for protesting these days. You don't need to be a police state in order to uphold the laws of the land. I am an independent, but clearly a right leaning independent. Doesn't mean I wont back proposals from the left that I think are viable or needed, just because of who proposed them. Partisan politics is what is wrong with government today, IMHO.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

Partisan politics is what is wrong with government today, IMHO.

I'd only add...it's what's wrong with EVERYTHING today...EVERYTHING is politicized...the more you depend on government and give it power, which ultimately comes down to politics...the more time you spend focused on the machinations of government so we like Europe and other places continually turn more power over our lives to government then complain, protest, riot...when government doesn't act in ways that we feel are in our best interest...when you centralize government and you put that much power and control over $$$ in the hands of a few....of course government is extremely partisan.......

[spence]

Every president has made questionable pardons, but to commute the sentence of a felon convicted of obstructing multiple investigations factoring your own behavior is as Mitt Romney called it “unprecedented, historic corruption.“
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Every president has made questionable pardons, but to commute the sentence of a felon convicted of obstructing multiple investigations factoring your own behavior is as Mitt Romney called it “unprecedented, historic corruption.“
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this is hilarious and romney is a jealous drama queen

[Got Stripers]

I think in a way you are whining like a baby, because your true self is just dying you can’t unleash your usual insults and SD BS. Don’t worry about me, regardless of the outcome of the last election, the next or any future election, my positive outlook on life is unshakable. This country will survive the worst president of our lifetime and any future political hack that gets elected.

[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

I think in a way you are whining like a baby, because your true self is just dying you can’t unleash your usual insults and SD BS. Don’t worry about me, regardless of the outcome of the last election, the next or any future election, my positive outlook on life is unshakable. This country will survive the worst president of our lifetime and any future political hack that gets elected.

I am not worried about you.
Peg will keep your diapers clean

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Sea Dangles

I am not worried about you.
Peg will keep your diapers clean

It's amazing how you canceling resort to personal insults. Talking about people's wives is about as low as it gets.
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[RickBomba]

Originally Posted by PaulS

It's amazing how you canceling resort to personal insults. Talking about people's wives is about as low as it gets.
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I know.

Talking about people’s wives is as low as it gets.

Now, if I had a bacon-wife, I’d prolly be a little more nicer.
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[Got Stripers]

Originally Posted by RickBomba

I know.

Talking about people’s wives is as low as it gets.

Now, if I had a bacon-wife, I’d prolly be a little more nicer.
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Like I've said many times, just like Trump can't help lying on a daily basis, SD's nature is to insult and the nastier the better; which is why he is dying now that he promised the boss to behave.

[Got Stripers]

There is the SD we all know, couldn’t help yourself, just like your guy; neither of you can stop the inner self.
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[Sea Dangles]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

There is the SD we all know, couldn’t help yourself, just like your guy; neither of you can stop the inner self.
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Our guy

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

This current administration in no way, represents anything resembling the constitutional form intended by the founders. And your statement that it purports to return to limited central governance is a joke, right? Limited central governance? With Donald J Trump? Pushing his way front and center on every issue. Dismissing experts in the field of disease and science so he can make a gut call.... Are you truly ready to hang your hat on this current administration? My eye is on the prize. I am going to vote against what the current administration has presented, which more closely resembles a nationalist dictatorship.

"More closely resembles a nationalist dictatorship" and "in no way represents anything resembling the constitutional form intended by the founders."????

The Founders were very nationalistic. They were very America First. They were very for immigration based on our economic, cultural, and technological need, not on open borders.

Trump has removed scads of regulations written by federal agencies (which had no constitutional grounds to exist in the first place), that were hampering our economic growth. The Founders were very against federal regulatory power outside of constitutional limitations and very much for the freedom of Americans to do business without the central government regulating its every move.

The Founders were very much for tariffs against foreign businesses that threatened the survival of American business.

Trump has nominated judges who are far more constitutionally oriented than those any Progressive would choose.

Would a Biden administration, or any Progressive administration for that matter, "more closely resemble" the Founders constitutional form of government than the Trump administration?

I get it that Trump, as a person, at least as he is portrayed and which many of his statements can be twisted to bolster that portrayal, is unacceptable to you. But being acceptable as a person, is not the same as being acceptable as a President who "more closely" will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.

I don't know on what grounds you think he less resembles a protector of the Constitution than Clinton, Obama, or Biden did or would.

Just the choice of Judges alone would be enough to make him more closely resemble a protector of the Constitution than any Progressive would be. If you do a thorough study of American Progressive political ideology, you will find that the Progressive premise of good government is that it not be hampered by silly things such as separation of powers. That, in order to efficiently mandate what is good, it must be centralized in one supreme authority of experts. Constitution be damned. Progressives invented the notion of a living constitution that changes, not by amendment, but merely when the ruling elite decides it has become outmoded. Progressives have, as one of FDR's "braintrust" advisors admitted, tortured and twisted the Constitution out of any original meaning in order to pass legislation needed to advance their centralizing form of unhampered government which very importantly included the creation of various regulatory agencies which the Constitution did not actually give them the power to do.

So, through Progressive disregard of constitutional limitations, we have arrived incrementally at a point where one election can enable Progressives to remove their mask and just openly begin to fill their wish list, as well as continue to create new wishes. One election can turn the court into the Progressive yes man against any challenges to what a Progressive administration desires.

You didn't answer when I asked you what does your conscience tell you about which party will protect your signature quote “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms.” – James Madison.

All it takes is a majority of Progressive Judges in SCOTUS to abolish the Second Amendment. Or any other Amendment or "unalienable right." Progressives don't believe there are such things as unalienable rights. They believe all rights are created by government and can be taken away or restricted by government.

The election is not about the person Trump. Voting for Biden because he, in your opinion, is a better person, can very well be voting against what you prize most in your form of government.

[Got Stripers]

Ross once you wind him up.......

[spence]

Yea those oppressive regulations were really holding the economy back. And I forgot the SCOTUS has the power to dissolve amendments
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

Yea those oppressive regulations were really holding the economy back.

Yes they were that's one of the reasons the economy quickly expanded after the regs were dropped.

And I forgot the SCOTUS has the power to dissolve amendments
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When Judges rule by personal preference rather than constitutional text, it then becomes a numbers game. Five or more votes decides. Simple as that. Progressive jurisprudence promotes, among other things, adjudication by what are perceived as higher moral principles or social justice rather than strict adherence to text.

Simply bring a test case to the court to challenge previous rulings or text, have five or more thoroughly Progressive Judges on the court . . . voila . . . change.

[spence]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Yes they were that's one of the reasons the economy quickly expanded after the regs were dropped.

That’s not even remotely true. Not sure if you’re just blatantly lying or ignorant.

When Judges rule by personal preference rather than constitutional text, it then becomes a numbers game. Five or more votes decides. Simple as that. Progressive jurisprudence promotes, among other things, adjudication by what are perceived as higher moral principles or social justice rather than strict adherence to text.

Simply bring a test case to the court to challenge previous rulings or text, have five or more thoroughly Progressive Judges on the court . . . voila . . . change.

Still doesn’t invalidate an amendment.

Next.
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[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

That’s not even remotely true. Not sure if you’re just blatantly lying or ignorant.

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prickly snowflake

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

prickly snowflake

Both hands on the keyboard.
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by spence

That’s not even remotely true. Not sure if you’re just blatantly lying or ignorant.

The claim may be exaggerated, but some deregulation helped along with the tax cuts and with the generally pro business tenor.

Still doesn’t invalidate an amendment.

The Court can basically void an amendment by neglect. And by "interpreting" it on the basis of "need" or "good reason" or any problem of gun violence that it deems that it currently deems so egregious that public safety requires gun ownership to be restricted to near uselessness in the case of the 2A.

This article notices a trend in that direction: https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/16/s...endment-cases/

Next.
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Elections and the Court. And the Constitution.

[Got Stripers]

Tin foil hats are a bit too tight!

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Got Stripers

Tin foil hats are a bit too tight!

Great insight. Game changer.

[Pete F.]

Raw intelligence and evidence are two very different things.
Destroying trust of sources in our intelligence community will have long lasting effects.
Putin’s very happy with the Trumplicans performance and so is the CCP
Congratulations
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[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Raw intelligence and evidence are two very different things.

blah, blah

Destroying trust of sources in our intelligence community will have long lasting effects.

Apparently, it was more important for some in intel to try to get rid of Trump than to be concerned with maintaining trust in themselves. What Comey and other of his minions have done in trying to illegally change the outcome of an election may have long lasting effects.

Putin’s very happy with the Trumplicans performance and so is the CCP

Putin and especially the CCP are very happy with the phony media knee cap of Trump, and with the destruction of the American economy caused by locking down the economy because of the virus.

Congratulations

Congratulate yourself. You're posts are part of the narrative that hides the duplicity of those who are trying to bring the Progressives to power which opens the door to transforming our system of government from one based on classical liberal emphasis on the unalienable rights of the individual to one which prescribes all rights and promotes them as belonging to various groups at the expense of other groups. And transforms our system founded on limited government to one of unlimited government power.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by detbuch

Congratulate yourself. You're posts are part of the narrative that hides the duplicity of those who are trying to bring the Progressives to power which opens the door to transforming our system of government from one based on classical liberal emphasis on the unalienable rights of the individual to one which prescribes all rights and promotes them as belonging to various groups at the expense of other groups. And transforms our system founded on limited government to one of unlimited government power.

Fun fact: When he is kicked out of office, Trump is no longer immune from criminal indictments.
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