Maxine Waters: “The hell with the Supreme Court. We will defy them”.

[Nebe]

Wait for the murders and suicides to happen from moms who have no options and dads who refuse to be dads.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Wait for the murders and suicides to happen from moms who have no options and dads who refuse to be dads.
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well, they have the option of going next door to a liberal state, so there’s that. You left that out.

Some southern red states have been clamping down on abortions, and the women aren’t all
dying.

And if someone commits suicide, tragic as that his, that’s their choice. The unborn has no choice in abortion outcomes.

You can’t win this debate, you aren’t holding any cards.

Maybe women should stop sleeping with “dads who refuse to be dads”, and move a little selective about who they hop into bed with.

This is democracy. Your state can do whet it wants, other states can do what they want. Where is it written in the stars they liberals have to get their way 100% of the time?
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Nebe

Wait for the murders and suicides to happen from moms who have no options and dads who refuse to be dads.
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The largest cause of death of pregnant women is murder by the sperm donor
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[PaulS]

I guess this is the reason many states aren't making an exception for rape. Maybe the woman should just "lay back and enjoy it"

A Republican nominee in a closely watched House race in Virginia made bizarre and false comments about rape victims, saying in leaked audio recordings that she wouldn’t be surprised if a woman’s body prevents pregnancies from rape because “it’s not something that’s happening organically,” and that the rapist is doing it “quickly.”
In the second clip, after the unidentified woman said she heard that it is “harder for a woman to get pregnant if she’s been raped,” Ms. Vega replied: “Well maybe, because there’s so much going on in the body, I don’t know. I haven’t, haven’t, you know, seen any studies but if I’m processing what you’re saying it wouldn’t surprise me, because it’s not something that’s happening organically, right? It’s forcing it.”

After the unidentified woman said the body “shuts down,” Ms. Vega replied: “Yeah, yeah, and then the individual, the male, is doing it as quickly, it’s not like, you know, and so I can see why maybe there’s truth to that.”

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I guess this is the reason many states aren't making an exception for rape. Maybe the woman should just "lay back and enjoy it"

A Republican nominee in a closely watched House race in Virginia made bizarre and false comments about rape victims, saying in leaked audio recordings that she wouldn’t be surprised if a woman’s body prevents pregnancies from rape because “it’s not something that’s happening organically,” and that the rapist is doing it “quickly.”
In the second clip, after the unidentified woman said she heard that it is “harder for a woman to get pregnant if she’s been raped,” Ms. Vega replied: “Well maybe, because there’s so much going on in the body, I don’t know. I haven’t, haven’t, you know, seen any studies but if I’m processing what you’re saying it wouldn’t surprise me, because it’s not something that’s happening organically, right? It’s forcing it.”

After the unidentified woman said the body “shuts down,” Ms. Vega replied: “Yeah, yeah, and then the individual, the male, is doing it as quickly, it’s not like, you know, and so I can see why maybe there’s truth to that.”

"I guess this is the reason many states aren't making an exception for rape. Maybe the woman should just "lay back and enjoy it"

Or you could ask someone what the reason is, which is how normal people inform themselves. The reason, and it's harsh but principled, is this...if you believe the baby is a person at conception, then the circumstances of the conception don't change that. It's a principled thing to believe.

Is that a state house race or a US house race? Hope she loses whatever race that is.

US Rep Hank Johnson (D-GA), said that he was afraid that building a military base on Guam might cause Guam to tip over. He literally said that. And no one on the left cares, because it's perfectly OK when democrats say outrageous things. Just this week, Pelosi, the terrific Catholic, looked down at a little Hispanic girl standing next to her, then elbowed her out of the way. If Marjorie Taylor Green had done that?

Everything is OK when democrats do it. But all Republicans are responsible for the insane things that kooks on their side say.

The Chicago mayor said in public, "F--- Clarence Thomas". That's OK.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I guess this is the reason many states aren't making an exception for rape. Maybe the woman should just "lay back and enjoy it"

A Republican nominee in a closely watched House race in Virginia made bizarre and false comments about rape victims, saying in leaked audio recordings that she wouldn’t be surprised if a woman’s body prevents pregnancies from rape because “it’s not something that’s happening organically,” and that the rapist is doing it “quickly.”
In the second clip, after the unidentified woman said she heard that it is “harder for a woman to get pregnant if she’s been raped,” Ms. Vega replied: “Well maybe, because there’s so much going on in the body, I don’t know. I haven’t, haven’t, you know, seen any studies but if I’m processing what you’re saying it wouldn’t surprise me, because it’s not something that’s happening organically, right? It’s forcing it.”

After the unidentified woman said the body “shuts down,” Ms. Vega replied: “Yeah, yeah, and then the individual, the male, is doing it as quickly, it’s not like, you know, and so I can see why maybe there’s truth to that.”

I guess another reason not to worry about rape and pregnancy - it is not forced:

N.C. (WITN) - U.S. Congressman Greg Murphy is receiving backlash for a tweet he sent and then deleted a few hours later.

The tweet read: “No one forces anyone to have sex” and was sent just days after the overturning of Roe v. Wade removed the federal protection of abortions. (he did walk back the tweet later)

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by PaulS

I guess another reason not to worry about rape and pregnancy - it is not forced:

N.C. (WITN) - U.S. Congressman Greg Murphy is receiving backlash for a tweet he sent and then deleted a few hours later.

The tweet read: “No one forces anyone to have sex” and was sent just days after the overturning of Roe v. Wade removed the federal protection of abortions. (he did walk back the tweet later)

no one denies that rape isn’t consensual. the huge majority of abortions are done on healthy women who had consensual
sex. the data is clear.

you’ve the fanatic extremist on this issue, you think it’s ok to abort into the 9th month and for any reason. St stop going to extremely rare extremes, and spend some time discussing what happens in 90% of abortions.
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[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’ve the fanatic extremist on this issue, you think it’s ok to abort into the 9th month and for any reason. St stop going to extremely rare extremes, and spend some time discussing what happens in 90% of abortions.
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I don't think I've ever stated any position on abortion into the 9th month.

[Pete F.]

If you don't accept that bodily autonomy is an essential unconditional liberty, it's a waste of time talking to you at all. No other liberties survive without that one, more fundamental than property rights: if you don't own yourself absolutely, you own nothing.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If you don't accept that bodily autonomy is an essential unconditional liberty, it's a waste of time talking to you at all. No other liberties survive without that one, more fundamental than property rights: if you don't own yourself absolutely, you own nothing.
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this has absolutely nothing to do with the principles of bodily autonomy. All that matters is the status of the baby.

we both believe women can do whatever they want,, as long as they don’t harm someone else. All that matters, literally all that matters, is whether or not the baby represents “someone else”.

Every other issue in this debate, is a smokescreen. unless you believe women have the right to murder anyone they want. But if you believe that the right to bodily autonomy stops at the point where someone else’s bodily autonomy is an issue, the. you and i agree on bodily autonomy.

we only disagree, on whether or not the baby is a person. When ultrasounds show the unborn actively fighting off the instruments of abortion, what does that mean to you? I’d pay to see you answer that.

And how do mandatory vaccines fit into your idea of bodily autonomy,
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

this has absolutely nothing to do with the principles of bodily autonomy. All that matters is the status of the baby.

we both believe women can do whatever they want,, as long as they don’t harm someone else. All that matters, literally all that matters, is whether or not the baby represents “someone else”.

Every other issue in this debate, is a smokescreen. unless you believe women have the right to murder anyone they want. But if you believe that the right to bodily autonomy stops at the point where someone else’s bodily autonomy is an issue, the. you and i agree on bodily autonomy.

we only disagree, on whether or not the baby is a person. When ultrasounds show the unborn actively fighting off the instruments of abortion, what does that mean to you? I’d pay to see you answer that.

And how do mandatory vaccines fit into your idea of bodily autonomy,
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So your religion says
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

So your religion says
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That's true, but also my conscience. My religion says that, but that's not why I say it.

You don't know the first thing about me. My beliefs determine my religion, you think it's the other way around. If the Pope announced today that the unborn aren't people and abortion was OK, you assume I'd embrace that belief. What I'd do, is find another religion that's the right fit for me.

For the 3rd time on this thread, I've heard OBGYNs tell of unborn babies trying, always unsuccessfully, to fight off the instruments of abortion. What does that say to you? Why won't you answer? This is what you advocate for, so why won't you address it? If you're so squeemish and uncomfortable with what abortion is, why do you support it so rabidly? Answer - because YOUR religion - liberalism - commands you to.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's true, but also my conscience. My religion says that, but that's not why I say it.

You don't know the first thing about me. My beliefs determine my religion, you think it's the other way around. If the Pope announced today that the unborn aren't people and abortion was OK, you assume I'd embrace that belief. What I'd do, is find another religion that's the right fit for me.

For the 3rd time on this thread, I've heard OBGYNs tell of unborn babies trying, always unsuccessfully, to fight off the instruments of abortion. What does that say to you? Why won't you answer? This is what you advocate for, so why won't you address it? If you're so squeemish and uncomfortable with what abortion is, why do you support it so rabidly? Answer - because YOUR religion - liberalism - commands you to.

Silly troll, it’s not my choice to make or yours.
If you haven’t figured it out yet, I never answer your silly questions.

Just because I’m pro choice doesn’t mean I’m pro abortion.
I don’t think anyones religion should be forced on another American, you do.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

this has absolutely nothing to do with the principles of bodily autonomy. All that matters is the status of the baby.

we both believe women can do whatever they want,, as long as they don’t harm someone else. All that matters, literally all that matters, is whether or not the baby represents “someone else”.

Every other issue in this debate, is a smokescreen. unless you believe women have the right to murder anyone they want. But if you believe that the right to bodily autonomy stops at the point where someone else’s bodily autonomy is an issue, the. you and i agree on bodily autonomy.

we only disagree, on whether or not the baby is a person. When ultrasounds show the unborn actively fighting off the instruments of abortion, what does that mean to you? I’d pay to see you answer that.

And how do mandatory vaccines fit into your idea of bodily autonomy,
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Six Catholic Justices decided this, it’s not religion🤷#^&♂️

A vaccine mandate doesn’t mean you are forced to have a vaccine. It means to participate in certain activities you need one. You can always choose to not participate in the activities.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Six Catholic Justices decided this, it’s not religion��#^&♂️

A vaccine mandate doesn’t mean you are forced to have a vaccine. It means to participate in certain activities you need one. You can always choose to not participate in the activities.
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Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You just don't get it.

The SCOTUS didn't say abortion is immoral. If they did, THAT would be the Catholic position. What they said, is that according to the Constitution, its not a federal issue but a state issue. There wasn't anything remotely close to a judgment about the morality of abortion. That discussion will occur where it belongs, in the states.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You just don't get it.

The SCOTUS didn't say abortion is immoral. If they did, THAT would be the Catholic position. What they said, is that according to the Constitution, its not a federal issue but a state issue. There wasn't anything remotely close to a judgment about the morality of abortion.

Rowe v Wade stood for fifty years, until there was a Catholic majority on the Supreme Court.
I believe the majority in their opinion as much as I did in their confirmation hearings when they said it was settled law, etc.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

A vaccine mandate doesn’t mean you are forced to have a vaccine. It means to participate in certain activities you need one. You can always choose to not participate in the activities.
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by certain activities you mean.........like your job?

mandate verb
man·​date | \ ˈman-ˌdāt \
mandated; mandating
Definition of mandate (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb

1: to administer or assign (something, such as a territory) under a mandate
2: to officially require (something) : make (something) mandatory : ORDER
a law mandating recycling
also : to direct or require (someone) to do something
a commission mandated to investigate corruption

[The Dad Fisherman]

Hmmm

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Hmmm

That's pretty accurate. But regarding abortion, no one denies that women can do whatever they want, as long as they don't harm someone else.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the idea of self autonomy or choice. All that matters is one's view of the unborn. The left never allows it to be framed that way, because that framing (the honest framing of the issue) paints the pro life crown as the side with empathy. Which it is, on this issue. The left might consider it mis-placed empathy, but the anti abortion position has nothing to do with the desire to enslave women, and everything to do with protecting what some consider to be an innocent human being.

The left never, ever allows it to be framed that way.

[wdmso]

Rep. Lauren Boebert, R-Colo., is arguing against the separation of church and state, according to a new video.

Boebert’s comments came Sunday at Cornerstone Christian Center in Basalt, Colorado


Won’t see any outrage from the usual suspects
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[wdmso]

I've heard OBGYNs tell of unborn babies trying, always unsuccessfully, to fight off the instruments of abortion


OMG how gullible are you? Now we have karate fetus self aware of threats bobbing and weaving in the womb
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I've heard OBGYNs tell of unborn babies trying, always unsuccessfully, to fight off the instruments of abortion


OMG how gullible are you? Now we have karate fetus self aware of threats bobbing and weaving in the womb
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you’re denying they can feel pain? is that what you’re saying?

your post above is so deranged, so not even close to what i said ( hence TDFs remark about you constantly hearing things that are t said), it’s harder than usual
to decipher your gibberish.

again, the only reason why you routinely wildly distort what i said, is because as dim as you are, even you know you can’t respond to what i actually said.

Let’s be very clear…do you deny that unborn babies can feel pain in the womb?


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[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

you’re denying they can feel pain? is that what you’re saying?

your post above is so deranged, so not even close to what i said ( hence TDFs remark about you constantly hearing things that are t said), it’s harder than usual
to decipher your gibberish.

again, the only reason why you routinely wildly distort what i said, is because as dim as you are, even you know you can’t respond to what i actually said.

Let’s be very clear…do you deny that unborn babies can feel pain in the womb?


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Now it’s about pain ? That’s not what you said do you read your own posts ? what did I miss . Or is this you just moving the goal posts again when called out on your nonsense

Jim how can a fetus have and concept of pain ?
Stop applying your self awareness as if a fetus is self aware it smell of desperation
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Jim how can a fetus have and concept of pain ?

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why do doctors often spank babies just after they’re born? do you know?

I shouldn’t be surprised that you’d be the only person stupid enough to deny that at some point they feel
pain. Doctors differ in when that is, but current estimates are around 15 weeks
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

Now it’s about pain ? That’s not what you said do you read your own posts ? what did I miss . Or is this you just moving the goal posts again when called out on your nonsense

Jim how can a fetus have and concept of pain ?
Stop applying your self awareness as if a fetus is self aware it smell of desperation
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I'll answer for you. Doctors spank newborns (or used to), to get them to cry, so they can make sure they are breathing.

Why do you suppose that spanking newborns, makes them cry? Because they feel the pain. So if they can feel pain one second after birth, are you going to tell me you have facts to support the idiotic notion that they can't feel pain one minute before birth? You think amniotic fluid is a painkiller?

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/845410

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I've heard OBGYNs tell of unborn babies trying, always unsuccessfully, to fight off the instruments of abortion


OMG how gullible are you? Now we have karate fetus self aware of threats bobbing and weaving in the womb
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So you edited this, but will you say why?

Here, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, mentions fetal pain as early as 20-21 weeks.

And when surgery is performed on the unborn, they give anesthesia as early as 14 weeks "to ameliorate pain".

But you know more than they do. Right?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...43639211059245

[wdmso]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

So you edited this, but will you say why?

Here, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, mentions fetal pain as early as 20-21 weeks.

And when surgery is performed on the unborn, they give anesthesia as early as 14 weeks "to ameliorate pain".

But you know more than they do. Right?

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...43639211059245

I copied what you wrote , sorry didn’t edit a thing

Did you read the article

Current neuroscientific evidence indicates the possibility of fetal pain perception

Possibility A thing that may happen or be the case.

And it’s a letter to the editor . Not a peer reviewed study ..



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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by wdmso

I copied what you wrote , sorry didn’t edit a thing

Did you read the article

Current neuroscientific evidence indicates the possibility of fetal pain perception

Possibility A thing that may happen or be the case.

And it’s a letter to the editor . Not a peer reviewed study ..



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again, why did doctors routinely spank newborns the second after they were born? what was the purpose?

and the hell you didn’t edit that post of yours. you edited your words, after saying it was stupid to suggest fetuses can feel pain. it’s only a question of when they feel pain, current thinking is 15-20 weeks in some circles.

didn’t you say abortion should only be allowed until viability? why? why would you force a woman to surrender her right to bodily autonomy and healthcare decisions? and whenever you define “viability”, please explain to be why the baby is different at that moment, than he is an hour before? how can you have any idea when a specific baby is viable?
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[Pete F.]

OBGYN Colleague in Missouri “We are now observing patients with ectopic pregnancy and hemoperitoneum until they have a documented falling hemoglobin or unstable vital signs”

1:50 pregnancies is ectopic

Some of the most quickly sick - fine to severely hypotensive in minutes - ER patients had ectopic pregnancies. There’s no time to hem and haw and worry about legal implications.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

OBGYN Colleague in Missouri “We are now observing patients with ectopic pregnancy and hemoperitoneum until they have a documented falling hemoglobin or unstable vital signs”

1:50 pregnancies is ectopic

Some of the most quickly sick - fine to severely hypotensive in minutes - ER patients had ectopic pregnancies. There’s no time to hem and haw and worry about legal implications.
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what percentage of abortions do you think are done because there’s a true medical emergency for the mom, and what % are done on healthy women who engaged in consensual sex, who just don’t want to give birth?

i have no problem with exceptions for actual medical emergencies, because almost all abortions are done for convenience. the data is pretty clear in that, as you said, Google is free.
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