Maxine Waters: “The hell with the Supreme Court. We will defy them”.

[Pete F.]

If you don't accept that bodily autonomy is an essential unconditional liberty, it's a waste of time talking to you at all. No other liberties survive without that one, more fundamental than property rights: if you don't own yourself absolutely, you own nothing.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

If you don't accept that bodily autonomy is an essential unconditional liberty, it's a waste of time talking to you at all. No other liberties survive without that one, more fundamental than property rights: if you don't own yourself absolutely, you own nothing.
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this has absolutely nothing to do with the principles of bodily autonomy. All that matters is the status of the baby.

we both believe women can do whatever they want,, as long as they don’t harm someone else. All that matters, literally all that matters, is whether or not the baby represents “someone else”.

Every other issue in this debate, is a smokescreen. unless you believe women have the right to murder anyone they want. But if you believe that the right to bodily autonomy stops at the point where someone else’s bodily autonomy is an issue, the. you and i agree on bodily autonomy.

we only disagree, on whether or not the baby is a person. When ultrasounds show the unborn actively fighting off the instruments of abortion, what does that mean to you? I’d pay to see you answer that.

And how do mandatory vaccines fit into your idea of bodily autonomy,
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

this has absolutely nothing to do with the principles of bodily autonomy. All that matters is the status of the baby.

we both believe women can do whatever they want,, as long as they don’t harm someone else. All that matters, literally all that matters, is whether or not the baby represents “someone else”.

Every other issue in this debate, is a smokescreen. unless you believe women have the right to murder anyone they want. But if you believe that the right to bodily autonomy stops at the point where someone else’s bodily autonomy is an issue, the. you and i agree on bodily autonomy.

we only disagree, on whether or not the baby is a person. When ultrasounds show the unborn actively fighting off the instruments of abortion, what does that mean to you? I’d pay to see you answer that.

And how do mandatory vaccines fit into your idea of bodily autonomy,
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So your religion says
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

So your religion says
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That's true, but also my conscience. My religion says that, but that's not why I say it.

You don't know the first thing about me. My beliefs determine my religion, you think it's the other way around. If the Pope announced today that the unborn aren't people and abortion was OK, you assume I'd embrace that belief. What I'd do, is find another religion that's the right fit for me.

For the 3rd time on this thread, I've heard OBGYNs tell of unborn babies trying, always unsuccessfully, to fight off the instruments of abortion. What does that say to you? Why won't you answer? This is what you advocate for, so why won't you address it? If you're so squeemish and uncomfortable with what abortion is, why do you support it so rabidly? Answer - because YOUR religion - liberalism - commands you to.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

That's true, but also my conscience. My religion says that, but that's not why I say it.

You don't know the first thing about me. My beliefs determine my religion, you think it's the other way around. If the Pope announced today that the unborn aren't people and abortion was OK, you assume I'd embrace that belief. What I'd do, is find another religion that's the right fit for me.

For the 3rd time on this thread, I've heard OBGYNs tell of unborn babies trying, always unsuccessfully, to fight off the instruments of abortion. What does that say to you? Why won't you answer? This is what you advocate for, so why won't you address it? If you're so squeemish and uncomfortable with what abortion is, why do you support it so rabidly? Answer - because YOUR religion - liberalism - commands you to.

Silly troll, it’s not my choice to make or yours.
If you haven’t figured it out yet, I never answer your silly questions.

Just because I’m pro choice doesn’t mean I’m pro abortion.
I don’t think anyones religion should be forced on another American, you do.
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[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

this has absolutely nothing to do with the principles of bodily autonomy. All that matters is the status of the baby.

we both believe women can do whatever they want,, as long as they don’t harm someone else. All that matters, literally all that matters, is whether or not the baby represents “someone else”.

Every other issue in this debate, is a smokescreen. unless you believe women have the right to murder anyone they want. But if you believe that the right to bodily autonomy stops at the point where someone else’s bodily autonomy is an issue, the. you and i agree on bodily autonomy.

we only disagree, on whether or not the baby is a person. When ultrasounds show the unborn actively fighting off the instruments of abortion, what does that mean to you? I’d pay to see you answer that.

And how do mandatory vaccines fit into your idea of bodily autonomy,
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Six Catholic Justices decided this, it’s not religion🤷#^&♂️

A vaccine mandate doesn’t mean you are forced to have a vaccine. It means to participate in certain activities you need one. You can always choose to not participate in the activities.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Six Catholic Justices decided this, it’s not religion��#^&♂️

A vaccine mandate doesn’t mean you are forced to have a vaccine. It means to participate in certain activities you need one. You can always choose to not participate in the activities.
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You just don't get it.

The SCOTUS didn't say abortion is immoral. If they did, THAT would be the Catholic position. What they said, is that according to the Constitution, its not a federal issue but a state issue. There wasn't anything remotely close to a judgment about the morality of abortion. That discussion will occur where it belongs, in the states.

[Pete F.]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You just don't get it.

The SCOTUS didn't say abortion is immoral. If they did, THAT would be the Catholic position. What they said, is that according to the Constitution, its not a federal issue but a state issue. There wasn't anything remotely close to a judgment about the morality of abortion.

Rowe v Wade stood for fifty years, until there was a Catholic majority on the Supreme Court.
I believe the majority in their opinion as much as I did in their confirmation hearings when they said it was settled law, etc.
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[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

Rowe v Wade stood for fifty years, until there was a Catholic majority on the Supreme Court.
I believe the majority in their opinion as much as I did in their confirmation hearings when they said it was settled law, etc.
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How long did the Dred Scott and Plessy V Ferguson decisions stand?

No one cares if you choose to hear things that no one said.
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[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Pete F.

A vaccine mandate doesn’t mean you are forced to have a vaccine. It means to participate in certain activities you need one. You can always choose to not participate in the activities.
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by certain activities you mean.........like your job?

mandate verb
man·​date | \ ˈman-ˌdāt \
mandated; mandating
Definition of mandate (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb

1: to administer or assign (something, such as a territory) under a mandate
2: to officially require (something) : make (something) mandatory : ORDER
a law mandating recycling
also : to direct or require (someone) to do something
a commission mandated to investigate corruption