Does America get "it"?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Government spending is part of GDP after all and programs to help the unemployed or poor do go right back into the economy.
-spence

But it's not the same effect as what happens in the free market.

Let's say i choose to buy a car. I choose to trade my money for the car, and the dealership agrees to trade the car for my money. Both parties enter the contract voluntarily, and thus both parties realize an economic benefit.

I don't know why you don't grasp this, but that's not what happens with government spending. In that case, my money gets involuntarily confiscated from me in the form of taxes, and I have little to no say in how it gets spent. Furthermore, in the current environment, the welfare programs may be doing as much harm as good, as they create a sense of entitlement that many poor folks get addicted to. They are therefore willing to not work, and collect welfare instead.

That does not represent wealth creation, it is wealth reduction.

We have 40 years of empirical evidence to see what happens when you throw money at the problem of poverty. Often, poor people are not poor because of a lack of money, they are poor because of behavioral issues. Those issues may not be solved, and indeed may be exacerbated, when you hand those people a check.

[scottw]

there is a component to Obamacare that uses the data collected from the enrollees that then determines their eligibility for ALL entitlement programs available to them and either notifies them or automatically enrolls them...they have a term for it that I can't recall like "mainstreaming" or something, the intent is to make sure that everyone that they have collected data on through the new healthcare legislation is also getting every possible government benefit that they might be eligible for...it's where we're going...get used to it....some call this progress Benefits.gov

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- More than one in seven Americans are on food stamps, but the federal government wants even more people to sign up for the safety net program.

The U.S. Department of Agriculture has been running radio ads for the past four months encouraging those eligible to enroll. The campaign is targeted at the elderly, working poor, the unemployed and Hispanics.

The department is spending between $2.5 million and $3 million on paid spots, and free public service announcements are also airing. The campaign can be heard in California, Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Ohio, and the New York metro area."


.................................................. ...........


"Welcome to USA.gov,” a website maintained by the Department of Homeland Security’s U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), bills itself as the “primary gateway for new immigrants to find basic information on how to settle in the United States” — featuring a prominent section for new immigrants about how to access government benefits.

“Depending on your immigration status, length of time in the United States, and income, you may be eligible for some federal benefit programs,” the Web page reads.

“Government assistance programs can be critically important to the well-being of some immigrants and their families. Frequently, however, there is a lack of information about how to access such benefits. Benefit programs can be complicated and you may be given misleading information about how they operate.”

The DHS page offers links to government websites that explain how to access benefits including food stamps, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), Medicaid, Medicare, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) and the “official website with information on all available federal benefit programs,” with a nonworking link to Benefits.gov."

[Raider Ronnie]

I grew up a kid in the Boston inner city in the Boston (Live in Jamacia Plain, my grandfathers auto repair shops were in Roxbury mid 1960s till 1970 then Dorchester till 1984)
I saw as a kid welfare families every single day.
Back then most all of them were skinny thin people, lots down on their luck , lots victims of lack of opportunity , lots just plain stupid.
2-3 generations later most cases the only skinny people you will find in those neighborhoods are the drug attics. And the majority on the doll are proud of it and expect the handouts !
Ya.
Our welfare system betters people's lives & makes us a better society !

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But it's not the same effect as what happens in the free market.

Let's say i choose to buy a car. I choose to trade my money for the car, and the dealership agrees to trade the car for my money. Both parties enter the contract voluntarily, and thus both parties realize an economic benefit.

I don't know why you don't grasp this, but that's not what happens with government spending. In that case, my money gets involuntarily confiscated from me in the form of taxes, and I have little to no say in how it gets spent. Furthermore, in the current environment, the welfare programs may be doing as much harm as good, as they create a sense of entitlement that many poor folks get addicted to. They are therefore willing to not work, and collect welfare instead.

That does not represent wealth creation, it is wealth reduction.

We have 40 years of empirical evidence to see what happens when you throw money at the problem of poverty. Often, poor people are not poor because of a lack of money, they are poor because of behavioral issues. Those issues may not be solved, and indeed may be exacerbated, when you hand those people a check.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Ya.
Our welfare system betters people's lives & makes us a better society !

The late, great Daniel Patrick Moynihan was a senator from NY (Hilary took his seat when he retired). He was a very liberal Democrat. When the current welfare programs came out, Senator Moynihan caught a lot of heat when he said that these programs (which give financial incentives for destructive behavior) would mean the end of the black nuclear family. Everyone said Moynihan was a moron.

Today, 73% of black babies are born out of wedlock. Seventy three percent.

And people still claim that the solution is to hand over more cash to young single moms.

Use my taxes to fund free daycare centers so that single moms can go to school during the day so they can get a job. You don't just give them cash for doing nothing.

According to Obama and the media, that view makes me a racist hatemonger.

15 or so years Raider Ronnie. If we don't right the ship by then, we'll hit he iceberg and the ship will right itself. The longer we wait, the more severe the fix will need to be.

Actuaries have been predicting this since the baby boomers were 10 years old. This is the most forseeable, preventable crisis we have ever faced, and we did nothing to stop it. It's like we're standing on railroad tracks, watching a slow-speed train approach for 50 years, and we couldn't convince ourselves to simply step off the track. So instead, we'll get hit and deal with that. But history (and common sense) will show it would have been a whole lot easier to just step off the track.

In the meantime, put your money in cash and gold. When the inevitable happens, put it back in stocks, and make a fortune.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

QUOTE=Jim in CT;970517]

We have 40 years of empirical evidence to see what happens when you throw money at the problem of poverty. Often, poor people are not poor because of a lack of money, they are poor because of behavioral issues. Those issues may not be solved, and indeed may be exacerbated, when you hand those people a check.

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device[/QUOTE]

Dollars thrown at the problem never did or never will solve this problem.
The answer is education, values and morals.
Until the parents and elders take an interest and take part in their kids education, teach the values and morals which lead to self esteem and pride in work, it will never be solved.
The ONLY thing free stuff does is buy votes and promote dependence. Anybody who believes differntly has their head in the sand.