More breaking news on Libya, about how help was denied

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

They had zero intelligence? They were there on the ground and could see what was around them. That doesn't count?


No, you just see what you want to see.


With hindsight, I have no doubt a special forces team couldn't have cleaned the place out in no time, but that's not the point.

The question isn't about what we know now, it's about they knew then.



Totally different situations.



Nobody is saying hold off until after the election, I'm sure there's a massive effort going on to assess and adjust. I said it's unfair to "litigate" during the election. This event was jumped on by Republicans for partisan gain without any regard to the families or those impacted.

Notice how Romney has dropped it? Wonder why...perhaps he now knows what really happened that he's getting his own security briefings.

-spence

"They had zero intelligence? They were there on the ground and could see what was around them. That doesn't count?"

Tyrone Woods was at the CIA annex, which os one mile away from the consulate. All he knew i sthat gunshots were reported. That was all he knew, an dthat was enough for him to ignore orders and risk his life to help the 30 people that were trapped.

When Tyrone Woods decided to run towards the consulate, he didn't know what he was heading into. Reports are there were a total of 2 or 3 guys that ran to help those in the consulate.

Nobody was radioing info to Woods, no one was giving him feeds from drones.

Suck on them apples.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Tyrone Woods was at the CIA annex, which os one mile away from the consulate. All he knew i sthat gunshots were reported. That was all he knew, an dthat was enough for him to ignore orders and risk his life to help the 30 people that were trapped.

When Tyrone Woods decided to run towards the consulate, he didn't know what he was heading into. Reports are there were a total of 2 or 3 guys that ran to help those in the consulate.

Nobody was radioing info to Woods, no one was giving him feeds from drones.

Jim, seriously...

He was in country to protect those people. He was one mile away. He's an ex Seal. I'd wager you would have done the exact same thing. I know would have done the exact same thing.

Big difference between that and having to order an unplanned mission that would impact a lot of lives. There's a difference between being selfless and being in a larger leadership position.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Jim, seriously...

He was in country to protect those people. He was one mile away. He's an ex Seal. I'd wager you would have done the exact same thing. I know would have done the exact same thing.

Big difference between that and having to order an unplanned mission that would impact a lot of lives. There's a difference between being selfless and being in a larger leadership position.

-spence

"Big difference between that and having to order an unplanned mission "

They had 7 hours, and lots of intelligence, to plan a mission. I know what I'm talking about from experience. You are saying things about which you have zero knowledge, just to suport the man you are infatuated with.

"an unplanned mission that would impact a lot of lives"

So instead we sat on our hands and did zilch. That aso impacted a lot of lives.

Spence, you don't send kids into harm's way, amd watch video of them beink killed, without moving heaven and earth to try to save them. If we go in there ike the wrath of God, we would have saved some of those who were ost, no question. Would Libyans on the ground have been kiled? Yes, no question.

Are you opposed to that? Whose side are you on? Ty Woods and the other SEAL were firing non-stop from a roof-top,with a heavy machine gun, for several hours. THis was a battle Spence. People get killed in battles. If an armed mob shoots at Americans, you kill them all, get your people out, and sort it out later. That's the pact we have with our armed forces, and for good reason. On that point, I know one hell of a lot more than you ever will. And I'm 100% right.

You cannot send kids into harm's way if political expedience trumps supporting them. We learned that in Vietnam. War is really ugly, and you either go all in,or you get out.

I keep coming back to the fact that Obama left these kids out to dry, and also let the Pakistanis put the guy in prison who told us where Bin Laden was. It almost (not quite, but almost) makes me wonder what the hell side Obama is on.

[justplugit]

Plain as the nose on your face, either one of two things, complete and utter incompetency,or lack of courage to make the right decesion for whatever reason.

Come on Mr President, tell us why four of our American citizens weren't given
the help they asked for and needed.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Plain as the nose on your face, either one of two things, complete and utter incompetency,or lack of courage to make the right decesion for whatever reason.

Come on Mr President, tell us why four of our American citizens weren't given
the help they asked for and needed.

I'll say one more thing justplugit. Those delta guys in Italy must be some pissed that they were told to stand by and play cards while Ty Woods was fighting for his life (and for the lives of the diplomats he was protecting).

People like Spence seem to think that if we sent in the special forces, that it would have been some huge epic bloodbath. This was not the battle of Iwo Jima. I read that the drone photos showed 20 or so militants, Spence says 40. Let's assume it was 40. Ty Woods and 1 other guy fought them off for 7 hours. I'll say that again. Two Navy SEALs fought off this mob for 7 hours.

A half-dozen tier-1 Delta Force operators (which is what we had standind idly by in Italy, 1 hour away) would have made this a turkey shoot. You didn't need to send in the entire 82nd Airborne here. This is precisely what these Delta guys train for, and if we didn't use them in this case, there is no reason for them to exist. None. You might as well get rid of them.

The Defense Dept and White House had 7 hours to put the wheels in motion. That's not what you call 'the fog of war'. A response to 20 untrained barbarians does not take 30 minutes to plan for, let alone 7 hours.

God Bless Foxnews, the only station talking about this.