Libya

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

So with Biden saying the Administration wasn't told they needed more
security at the Embassy in Bengazi, Obama should have attended more
than 50% of his daily security briefings and read less of them, especially leading up to the 9/11 anniversary.

Where does the buck stop?

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

[likwid]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

You imply they make it up on their own.

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by likwid

You imply they make it up on their own.

Kind of like making up a video related protest that spiraled into an Embassy attack? I guess the congressional hearings are all a bunch of malarkey
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jackbass

Kind of like making up a video related protest that spiraled into an Embassy attack? I guess the congressional hearings are all a bunch of malarkey
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Actually that is absolutely nothing like what I just posted or implied, but carry on.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

Spence, please enligten me.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence enligten .

now, there's an oxymoron...sorry, couldn't resist

this Administration can't be honest about anything, the arrogance, disdain and bitterness being displayed is stunning, the two debates illustrated perfectly who these people are, at the top an extraordiantily arrogant and detached man who feels it beneath him to have to explain himself and his sidekick... a disrespectful, possibly deranged lunatic who apparently missed his President's lecture on civil discourse I can't recall a Presidential Ticket quite like this one...the mask crafted in 2008 has completely come off

we can't look to this administration for honesty or integrity on anything and they completely fail the "transparency" bar that they set for themselves...time for them to go

[basswipe]

The problem is clearly a youtube video.

[spence]

Originally Posted by justplugit

Spence, please enligten me.

I've never seen any reporting that indicates Biden or Obama were aware of any security requests. Even in the investigation it appears the issue never got past the State Department.

Additionally, it appears that the additional security that was requested was actually for Tripoli and not even at the embassy.

The size of the requests don't appear to have been large enough to have stopped the attack regardless.

An interesting element here that appears to be under reported is that the Libyan government doesn't want a big American footprint on their soil. They've prohibited the use of private contractors and the State employees have to rely on their private security teams and the Libyan military for protection.

Conflating the real situation with a talking point about Obama not attending briefings doesn't help either....

Because you're making it up.

-spence

[scottw]

and there you have it...the administration stance on just about every issue....we've evloved in 4 years from "Hope and Change"...to...."Everyone else is Lying...We're telling the Truth and Your are too Stupid to get it"....love it

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

and there you have it...the administration stance on just about every issue....

Well, that's what I heard from the investigation.

There's certainly a case to be made that our people in Libya felt they needed more protection, but that should be a policy discussion not a political one.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

I've never seen any reporting that indicates Biden or Obama were aware of any security requests. Even in the investigation it appears the issue never got past the State Department.

Additionally, it appears that the additional security that was requested was actually for Tripoli and not even at the embassy.

The size of the requests don't appear to have been large enough to have stopped the attack regardless.

An interesting element here that appears to be under reported is that the Libyan government doesn't want a big American footprint on their soil. They've prohibited the use of private contractors and the State employees have to rely on their private security teams and the Libyan military for protection.

Conflating the real situation with a talking point about Obama not attending briefings doesn't help either....

Because you're making it up.

-spence

"I've never seen any reporting that indicates Biden or Obama were aware of any security requests. Even in the investigation it appears the issue never got past the State Department."

Spence, in the aftefrmath of Hurricane Katrina, remember how everyone blamed Bush for the slow federal response? Well, I bet none o fthe people at the Superdome called Bush personally. Yet somehow people felt justified in blaming Bush, and they were obviously correct to do so. The buck truly does stop with Obama/Biden.

Along the same lines, Obama wasn't with Seal Team 6 when they killed Bin Laden, but Obama likes to take credit for that.

You want to give Obama credit for every good thing that happens, and no blame for the bad things. Can't have it both ways.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Spence, in the aftefrmath of Hurricane Katrina, remember how everyone blamed Bush for the slow federal response? Well, I bet none o fthe people at the Superdome called Bush personally. Yet somehow people felt justified in blaming Bush, and they were obviously correct to do so. The buck truly does stop with Obama/Biden.

They blamed Bush because he personally appointed someone with zero direct experience to head FEMA. Heck of a job Brownie...

Along the same lines, Obama wasn't with Seal Team 6 when they killed Bin Laden, but Obama likes to take credit for that.

Big difference, Obama personally made the call and took accountability for the outcome good or bad.

You want to give Obama credit for every good thing that happens, and no blame for the bad things. Can't have it both ways.

One was a reactive situation, the other was a proactive situation. They are very different and complex in different ways.

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

They blamed Bush because he personally appointed someone with zero direct experience to head FEMA. Heck of a job Brownie...


Big difference, Obama personally made the call and took accountability for the outcome good or bad.


One was a reactive situation, the other was a proactive situation. They are very different and complex in different ways.

-spence

Keep moving those goalposts Spence, until it looks as though your man-crush has scored a goal.

If Bush is to be blamed for appointing Mr Brown to head FEMA, what do you say about Obama picking everyone's Krazy Unkle Joe as Vice President? Afetr repeatedly making an ass out of himself at the debate, you dismissed it as Biden being his bombastive self. Fine. When Palin put her foot in her mouth every day in 2008, did you so casually dismiss that as Palin being her folksy self? Or did you make the claim that her behavior made her unfit.

When Joe is an idiot, he's just being Joe. When Palin is an idiot, she's truly an idiot.

Unbelievable hypocrisy. You just keep those goalposts on a dolly so you can roll them wherever you need to.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If Bush is to be blamed for appointing Mr Brown to head FEMA, what do you say about Obama picking everyone's Krazy Unkle Joe as Vice President? Afetr repeatedly making an ass out of himself at the debate, you dismissed it as Biden being his bombastive self. Fine. When Palin put her foot in her mouth every day in 2008, did you so casually dismiss that as Palin being her folksy self? Or did you make the claim that her behavior made her unfit.

Biden may have been over the top but he brought a lot of substance to the debate. Agree or disagree I can't see how anybody would assert he doesn't know his stuff.

Palin couldn't even name a newspaper she had recently read.

Your comparisons are nearing non sequitur calibre. I thought I told you, ScottW is NOT a good role model

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Big difference, Obama personally made the call and took accountability for the outcome good or bad.

-spence

not exactly...


At the urging of Valerie Jarrett, President Barack Obama canceled the operation to kill Osama bin Laden on three separate occasions before finally approving the May 2, 2011 Navy SEAL mission, according to an explosive new book scheduled for release August 21.

In ”Leading From Behind: The Reluctant President and the Advisors Who Decide for Him,“ Richard Miniter writes that Obama canceled the “kill” mission in January 2011, again in February, and a third time in March. Obama’s close adviser Valerie Jarrett isn't that "General Jarrett?" persuaded him to hold off each time, according to the book.

Miniter, a two-time New York Times best-selling author, cites an unnamed source with Joint Special Operations Command who had direct knowledge of the operation and its planning.

Obama administration officials also said after the raid that the president had delayed giving the order to kill the arch-terrorist the day before the operation was carried out, in what turned out to be his fourth moment of indecision. At the time, the White House blamed the delay on unfavorable weather conditions near bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

But when Miniter obtained that day’s weather reports from the U.S. Air Force Combat Meteorological Center, he said, they showed ideal conditions for the SEALs to carry out their orders.

.......................

Former U.S. Attorney Michael Mukasey told the Fox News Channel that the Navy SEAL mission to kill Osama bin Laden was preceded by “a highly lawyered memo” from CIA Director Leon Panetta — one designed to insulate President Barack Obama if the operation failed.


...................

we're talking about a guy that is shameless in taking credit for things that go right and whose three favorite words are I, Me and My....... and who is very quick to blame others when things go wrong or when he wants to deflect criticism...claiming that he "took accountability for the outcome good or bad"...is Joe Biden funny= comically sad and disturbing

[likwid]

Originally Posted by scottw

not exactly...

From the author of a book that talks about how 24 is realistic.

Whats next? Dr Seuss for foreign policy advisor?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

They blamed Bush because he personally appointed someone with zero direct experience to head FEMA. Heck of a job Brownie...


Big difference, Obama personally made the call and took accountability for the outcome good or bad.


One was a reactive situation, the other was a proactive situation. They are very different and complex in different ways.

-spence

"One was a reactive situation, the other was a proactive situation."

I'm assuming you say Libya was a 'proactive situation'. And in that case, as usual, you are wrong on the facts. The state department (Obama's state dept) decided to pull 2 full security teams out of Libya (12 men each, I believe). The guy in charge of security at the embassy asked the state dept to reconsider, and he pointed to all the recent, documented cases of violence and threats. The state dept (Obama's state dept) was not convinced. You can make a very strong case that 4 superb Americans paid for that stupidity with their lives.

Then, the reaction. Five days afetr the attack, the state dept, the ambassador to the UN, and Jay Carney (Obama's press secretary) said there was no evidence it was anything other than a spontaneous outburst. So I guess Obama believes that protesting students typically carry RPGs, mortars, and mortar tubes in their backpacks?

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm assuming you say Libya was a 'proactive situation'. And in that case, as usual, you are wrong on the facts. The state department (Obama's state dept) decided to pull 2 full security teams out of Libya (12 men each, I believe). The guy in charge of security at the embassy asked the state dept to reconsider, and he pointed to all the recent, documented cases of violence and threats. The state dept (Obama's state dept) was not convinced. You can make a very strong case that 4 superb Americans paid for that stupidity with their lives.

No, the Embassy attack would be a reactive situation.

If you bothered to read my posts above I mentioned the restrictions on US security and the policy likely guiding the actions. We were trying to draw down a US presence, not maintain or escalate it.

If this was stupidity or not I'm not sure we know, but if so it would look like a mid-level deputy made a bad call.

Then, the reaction. Five days afetr the attack, the state dept, the ambassador to the UN, and Jay Carney (Obama's press secretary) said there was no evidence it was anything other than a spontaneous outburst. So I guess Obama believes that protesting students typically carry RPGs, mortars, and mortar tubes in their backpacks?

I'm not sure they really knew what the heck had happened to be honest. Look at how long it took the FBI to even get onsite. I do think they could have handled the messaging better early on, be less specific until the facts were more clear etc...

-spence

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by spence

Now you appear to just be making things up.

-spence

Are you feeling OK Spence? Biden specifically said that "we weren't told" that anyone asked for extra security.

Someone is making things up Spence. As usual, it's you.

[spence]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Are you feeling OK Spence? Biden specifically said that "we weren't told" that anyone asked for extra security.

Someone is making things up Spence. As usual, it's you.

Read my post.

-spence