The game remains the same ..

[afterhours]

you know gov't is out of control when they dictate which back door you must use on YOUR house...

[ed morini]

While it is quite evident that the codes have changed recently, I wouldn't necessarily blame the govt. The insurance companies are the culprits here. After Andrew in Florida, and Katrina the insurance companies have been looking for ways to limit their liabilities. Code changes were made to strengthen up the exterior weak points...windows and doors and garages and decks. Originally the Cape and Islands, and Mass coastal areas were designated as 120 mph wind areas requiring expensive windows and doors and framing ties. This was later changes to 110 mph and there is an allowable storm panel provision to protect regular windows. Here in Holliston the wind rating is 100 mph so there are no issues. The building code does require one means of egress to be 3'-0" and an inspector could make the case that if you replace the door that is sub par then a three foot door should be installed. I do know that in the 7th edition, code any work done to a means of egress required a permit. I don't know if this provision made it into the 8th edition but I'll look Changing a door size to a larger one would require a permit anyway

Ed

[BigFish]

Again I state...doors and windows are not structural and surely will be the least point of concern if an appropriate "Hurricane" strikes! When was the last time Onset had a Hurricane again?????

[ed morini]

Windows and doors are considered structural in high wind areas 120 mph. A breach in these areas will cause extensive damage to the home and in some cases cause the structure itself to be compromised. Windows are tested by the 2x4 cannon..ie. a 2x4 shot at the glass a t predetermined speed, regular windows get one shot to pass,, 120 mph windows the glass and membrane must remain intact after many impacts. The 120 mph window is very expensive and the argument by the Cape builders was that the cost were prohibitive and the window could be protected by a storm panel the code was subsequently changed and the storm panels were allowed. Doors because they are a means of egress are another matter as there are many styles and glass configurations to contend with so are engineered to different testing.
Things have changed, windows and doors are components of structural systems and are treated accordingly and subject to code requirements. In addition in the event of a loss to a home, the first thing the insurance companies look for is work performed without a permit and if found that is grounds to deny the claim. I don't agree with some of the regulations, but I can see the reasons for the.. Big box sales people that don't know what they are selling, big box installers that are incompetent, workmen that are incompetent and homeowners that are all to willing to fore go the permit process and put their home in jeopardy for the sake of a couple of bucks and a trip to the town hall.
The office of inspections should be a resource center center not a punitive exercise.. if it isn't then complain.

Sorry for the rant

ed

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Again I state...doors and windows are not structural and surely will be the least point of concern if an appropriate "Hurricane" strikes! When was the last time Onset had a Hurricane again?????

hurricane Bob
it wrecked a lot of boats and homes

you can state your opinion Bigfish, that doors are not structural, but the fact is, they are part of the structure.


Tagger, ya bought a sugar shack, you would think they'd be happy you are improving it but I guess it's all because of liability. too bad too, because even when you buy a house that's been inspected, stuff slips thru the cracks from back when it was new, and the homeowner winds up with crappy construction shortcuts anyway sometimes.

[Tagger]

These high impact doors may be required by code with in a mile of the coast , But try finding one .. Wife called all over the cape ,, special order .. Standard steel wood case doors are still the norm in stock .

[BigFish]

Its bull#^&#^&#^&#^& and I don't care what anyone says!! Have the #^&#^&#^&#^&er show you the written code!!!

[ed morini]

There is no "within one mile of the coast" there are only wind speed areas period. Flood prone areas are another issue altogether, but I just read an article on a door shield for flooding up to 30".I too would ask to see the code reference. If by chance there was one, I would next contact the door company you would like to purchase a door from and ask for a spec sheet to be faxed to the lumber yard or big box store. Most door manufacturers belong to the fenestration board and wind ratings are listed. On the Cape, the wind speed is 110...I believe most doors will pass this. Specs from the manufacturer are all the BI needs for performance compliance.

I just went on the Jeld Wen site and the list a severe storm glass for gtlass paneled doors that pass. I am sure there is a up charge, but you dont have to put a shutter over the door. Come to think of it why can't you just build a storm panel to go over the door. As I recall, on the cape on new construction the storm panels must be on site in order to get occupancy, and as far as I know regular windows are allowed with the additional storm panels.

Ed

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Again I state...doors and windows are not structural and surely will be the least point of concern if an appropriate "Hurricane" strikes! When was the last time Onset had a Hurricane again?????

Bob was bad ,, but 1938 was the worst .. Houses floated right off there blocks ,, Old timer told me there was a guy who charged $100.00 a house to tie a rope to it and tow it back to the blocks .. That's why a lot of these houses are crooked on the blocks .

[Grapenuts]

Homeowner acting as "contractor"....contractors have to know the codes....building inspector isn't there to play teacher, just to inforce the codes.The days of "sure use this or do this are long gone.

[BigFish]

Well Tagger is a union carpenter so......pretty sure he has a grasp of code. Pretty sure he was not going to make a door out of popsicle sticks and Elmers! I submitted architect quality drawings for our mud room addition complete with measurements the whole nine yards!! Inspector comes for the rough inspection and informs me we need a landing at the top of the stairs outside the back door of the mud room!!! Now I ask you....is it or is it not the inspectors job to look over the drawings that THEY REQUEST" to make sure that everything is as it should be???? It was a simple mud room.....childs play compared to building a complete structure yet the inspector dropped the ball.....could not execute his job to provide me the service for which we do pay the permit fees!!!!!! I wanted to crush his F'in skull the dumb bastard!!!!!!

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by BigFish

Well Tagger is a union carpenter so......pretty sure he has a grasp of code. Pretty sure he was not going to make a door out of popsicle sticks and Elmers! I submitted architect quality drawings for our mud room addition complete with measurements the whole nine yards!! Inspector comes for the rough inspection and informs me we need a landing at the top of the stairs outside the back door of the mud room!!! Now I ask you....is it or is it not the inspectors job to look over the drawings that THEY REQUEST" to make sure that everything is as it should be???? It was a simple mud room.....childs play compared to building a complete structure yet the inspector dropped the ball.....could not execute his job to provide me the service for which we do pay the permit fees!!!!!! I wanted to crush his F'in skull the dumb bastard!!!!!!

I always wondered why they need drawings if they are only going to inspect the work done.

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by Grapenuts

Homeowner acting as "contractor"....contractors have to know the codes....building inspector isn't there to play teacher, just to inforce the codes.The days of "sure use this or do this are long gone.

Pretty sure this is exactly what a building inspectors job is?