Obama's Healthcare

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

by the way... let's not leave out what the guy from the cbo actually said:
"the health legislation will increase the federal budgetary commitment to health care."

It doesn't say kids in Catholic schools will have their premiums double. What are the facts?

Zimmy, you are correct, correlation does not mean causation.

But did you read the article I posted. Those guys, with access to real data, said that Obamacare will increase healthcare costs.

Zimmy, do you doubt, at this point, that Obamacare will increase costs? Where is your proof of that? All you're doing is trying desperately, and unsuccessfully, to poke holes in what everyone else is saying. Do you have any data, any at al, to suggest it will lower costs?

I'll say it again...you cannot add millions to the healthcare system, and give more coverage to them, without increasing costs. It's not possible. Common sense says it's not possible, economics 101 says it's not possible, the CBO says it's not possible, Towers Perrin says it's not possible, and Obama's own agency says it's not possible.

The only basis for denying the increased costs is a fanatical devotion to Obama. There's no other explanation.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

But did you read the article I posted. Those guys, with access to real data, said that Obamacare will increase healthcare costs.

Jim, please show me where in the article it gives any indication that the kids insurance costs doubled because of the law.

The article says "federal burden" will increase. I am not interested in semantics that the federal burden is on us.

Again, I am not saying costs won't go up. I want to know the validity of stating the kids costs doubled because of the law. Apparently, we are two pages in to this and there is not one shred of evidence.


If you are going to keep posting information that makes assumptions about what I think and are your own strange projections , I won't be responding to you again for a long time.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jim, please show me where in the article it gives any indication that the kids insurance costs doubled because of the law.

The article says "federal burden" will increase. I am not interested in semantics that the federal burden is on us.

Again, I am not saying costs won't go up. I want to know the validity of stating the kids costs doubled because of the law. Apparently, we are two pages in to this and there is not one shred of evidence.


If you are going to keep posting information that makes assumptions about what I think and are your own strange projections , I won't be responding to you again for a long time.

Zimmy, Obamacare increases coverage. That increases costs.

JohnnyD said that Obamacare would increase costs for him. That wasn't good enough for you.

You yourself said that federal burden for healthcare will increase. That means we're spending more on healthcare, which means healthcare costs go up.

I'm not saying that Obamacare is going to mean that my doctor charges me more when I go to get antibiotics.

Zimmy, here is another art5icle about Obamacare increasing costs, maybe this will suffice...

Christian College Says ObamaCare Will Double Insurance Costs | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

Quotes...

"HHS did say that students will have added benefits under the law – including a rule that prevents insurance companies from putting an annual limit on student health plans"

Zimmy, most plans have limits on the maximum annual benefit...Obamacare does away with this...this means the companies have to pay more benefits, which means the cost must increase.

Good enough? Satisfied?

Obama also bragged that Obamacare would prohibit carriers from dropping people with pre-existing conditions. This necessarily costs insurance companies more, which means the premiums must increase. A child understands this.

Here is another piece...

Obamacare Increases Health Insurance Premiums

"The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that the benefit mandates in Obamacare—in combination with the limited cost-sharing—will increase premiums 27–30 percent in the individual market and up to 3 percent in the small group market"

"Limits on Deductibles

Individuals who do not have co-payments or deductibles lack “skin in the game” and thus have less incentive to economize on their use of health care services. This results in higher premiums for their health insurance. The CBO concludes that a 10 percent decrease in cost-sharing typically increases health care spending by 1–2 percent"

"The average 60-year-old consumes about six times as much health care as the average 20-year-old, but Obamacare mandates that insurers charge the oldest individuals in the risk pool no more than three times the lowest rate. As a result, young individuals will pay much more than the actuarially fair amount for their premiums. Management consulting firm Oliver Wyman estimated that premiums will rise by 45 percent for those age 18–24, 35 percent for those age 25–29, and 26 percent for those age 30–34."

"In order to charge individuals a fair premium, insurers in the individual market engage in underwriting to determine applicant risk. That is, healthy individuals are less of a risk and thus enjoy lower premiums, the same way good drivers get discounts on their auto insurance. Obamacare bans this type of underwriting to rate premiums. The result will be higher premiums for the vast majority of individuals who are relatively healthy. "

"Obamacare is set to reduce the reimbursements doctors and hospitals receive for Medicare. A 2006 Health Affairs piece finds that a 1 percent relative decrease in the average Medicare price is associated with a 0.17 percent increase in the corresponding price paid by privately insured patients. The study found that cost shifting from Medicare and Medicaid to private payers accounted for 12.3 percent of the total increase in the price of private insurance from 1997 to 2001"

"Obamacare includes many new taxes, including a 2.3 percent excise tax on medical devices and annual fees on health insurance providers. A tax placed on insurance companies or medical device companies will be passed to consumers in the form of higher premiums. "

Zimmy, two of my hobbies are tennis and chess. In tennis, we call this "game, set, match", and in chess we call this "checkmate".

Good luck coming coming up with a "yeah, but..." response to this. Try to refrain from calling me a racist...

[Jim in CT]

Zimmy, here is more...

"http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/08/09/medicare-actuary-obamacare-will-triple-the-growth-rate-of-net-insurance-costs/"

"Well, the Office of the Actuary in the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services recently put out its annual projections of national health care spending. And, contrary to the President, the actuaries find that Obamacare will dramatically increase the near-term growth rate of health care costs. In 2014, the actuaries find that growth in the net cost of health insurance will increase by nearly 14 percent, compared to 3.5% if PPACA had never passed. The growth rate of private insurance costs will rise to 9.4 percent, from 5.0 percent under prior law: an 88% increase."

Zimmy, enlighten us, tell us why it is that you (and Obama)know more than the Medicare and Medicaid actuaries?

Obama will not utter one breath about Obamacare in this campaign unless the issue is forced. If he really believes that he could increase coverage while reducing costs, he doesn't understand economics 101, and clearly he's not smart enough to lead the economy.

Personally, I'll gladly pay more in taxes if it genuinely helps people. But I know there's no such thing as getting something for nothing. It does not exist, despite what hard-core liberals claim.

The man is unfit for the job, in WAY over his head.