Trayvon / Media

[scottw]

Originally Posted by likwid

If you were in NY it was a huge case.

So tell us scott, what are the similarities?

"There are many similarities between the Scott-Cervini case and the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case in Florida. In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Unlike Florida, New York does not have a "stand your ground" law. New York law allows a person to use deadly force to defend his residence from home invasion only as a last resort. It does not allow the use of deadly force to prevent a property crime, and requires retreat if possible. Thus, while Zimmerman was not arrested under Florida law, Scott was tried for manslaughter.

New York law does allow a person to use deadly force anywhere, including off his own property, if he feels that his life is in imminent danger and retreat is not possible. Despite the fact that he left his own property, confronted, and shot dead an unarmed white person thought to be committing a petty property crime, Scott was acquitted by a majority-white jury after claiming that the Cervini charged at him, putting him in imminent fear of his life."



I don't think Martin was shot because he was smuggling Skittles or profiled for wearing a hoodie, he was shot because he somehow ended up on top of Zimmerman beating his head into the ground(I'm just going by the evidence), how he ended up there is a matter for the jury to decide but I don't think I'd be justified if I was being followed by a homeless person asking for change and ended up on top of them beating their head into the sidewalk because they were bothering me or profiling me as someone who might give them some money..they have a right to be on the sidewalk just as I'd have a right to walk past them, if they ask me a question or even harass me verbally, I don't have a right to beat them...

[likwid]

Originally Posted by scottw

"There are many similarities between the Scott-Cervini case and the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case in Florida. In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Cervini and his friends were high/drunk and Scott saw them attempting to break into a car.

What was Trayvon doing?

Unlike Florida, New York does not have a "stand your ground" law. New York law allows a person to use deadly force to defend his residence from home invasion only as a last resort. It does not allow the use of deadly force to prevent a property crime, and requires retreat if possible. Thus, while Zimmerman was not arrested under Florida law, Scott was tried for manslaughter.

New York is a victim state to put it simply.
No relevance.

New York law does allow a person to use deadly force anywhere, including off his own property, if he feels that his life is in imminent danger and retreat is not possible. Despite the fact that he left his own property, confronted, and shot dead an unarmed white person thought to be committing a petty property crime, Scott was acquitted by a majority-white jury after claiming that the Cervini charged at him, putting him in imminent fear of his life."

Thought? Read the reports. He was actively committing a crime according to Scott.

I don't think Martin was shot because he was smuggling Skittles or profiled for wearing a hoodie, he was shot because he somehow ended up on top of Zimmerman beating his head into the ground(I'm just going by the evidence), how he ended up there is a matter for the jury to decide but I don't think I'd be justified if I was being followed by a homeless person asking for change and ended up on top of them beating their head into the sidewalk because they were bothering me or profiling me as someone who might give them some money..they have a right to be on the sidewalk just as I'd have a right to walk past them, if they ask me a question or even harass me verbally, I don't have a right to beat them...

How do you draw a gun while having your head bashed into pavement?

[scottw]

Originally Posted by likwid

Cervini and his friends were high/drunk and Scott saw them attempting to break into a car.

What was Trayvon doing?

why does it matter?...

in both cases the stage was set by recent crime in the vicinity

at the time of the incident Scott saw the kids hanging around a car acting suspiciously, left his home loaded his weapon and confronted the kids on the street while his wife called the police(just going by the reports), at the time, Zimmerman spotted Martin hanging around the club house acting suspiciously and called the police....neither knew about any of the other stuff until afterward, Scott could have yelled from his doorway that he was calling the police and then closed and locked his door just as Zimmerman could have gotten into his car and locked the door and waited for the police....Scott fired twice, once apparently in the back, prior to an altercation....Zimmerman fired sometime during or after an altercation in which he was badly battered...

New York is a victim state to put it simply.
No relevance.
?


Thought? Read the reports. He was actively committing a crime according to Scott.

report says they were rummaging for cigarettes in an unlocked car, again, neither Zimmerman nor Scott really knew what the kid(s) were up to but inserted themselves into a situation that ended very badly, Zimmerman had a right to be in his neighborhood and ask Martin what he was doing there just as Scott had a right to be on his sidewalk and ask what the kids were doing near the car, both could have retreated to safety, both claim that they were threatened/attacked, Zimmerman bore physical evidence


How do you draw a gun while having your head bashed into pavement?

probably out of desperation

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

I don't think Martin was shot because he was smuggling Skittles or profiled for wearing a hoodie, he was shot because he somehow ended up on top of Zimmerman beating his head into the ground(I'm just going by the evidence), how he ended up there is a matter for the jury to decide but I don't think I'd be justified if I was being followed by a homeless person asking for change and ended up on top of them beating their head into the sidewalk because they were bothering me or profiling me as someone who might give them some money..they have a right to be on the sidewalk just as I'd have a right to walk past them, if they ask me a question or even harass me verbally, I don't have a right to beat them...

Your analogy assumes no suspicion of malice, it's quite reasonable to think that Martin felt threatened. If some guy was following me in the dark in an unfamiliar neighborhood you'd better believe I'd have my guard up.

Interesting to read that Zimmerman has caught a criminal and held them for the police before. That combined with his remark on the 911 tape that "these a$$holes always get away" seems to establish a clear motive for his actions contrary to the rules established for the neighborhood watch. I think the prosecution will be able to establish a pattern of behavior and portray Zimmerman as someone who for good intentions crossed the line into vigilante justice which willingly put him in a position where he was threatened.

Considering the result was a dead kid, I don't see how Zimmerman can escape responsibility for his actions. We'll see.

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

Interesting to read that Zimmerman has caught a criminal and held them for the police before.


seems to establish a clear motive for his actions contrary to the rules established for the neighborhood watch.

again...which one?

and is this the quote that you are referring to?

"He once caught a thief and an arrest was made," Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association, told the Herald. "He helped solve a lot of crimes."