NY Times poll shows there's no "war on women", not even close

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Dishonesty? The question could also be made that an insurance company should not discriminate against a client because of the employers belief, no? You will be much better off when you start to consider that people with other views are not inherently wrong.

"an insurance company should not discriminate against a client because of the employers belief, no?"

Zimmy, for the last time, there IS NO LAW that says that women have the right to contraception, except where there are legitimate health needs.

However, there IS precedent (the 1st amendment) saying that the feds cannot force a religion to violate its beliefs.

What part of those 2 paragraphs can't you understand? I know you don't like it, you don't have to like it. But liberals need to realize that the Bill Of Rights even applies to Catholics.

"You will be much better off when you start to consider that people with other views are not inherently wrong"

You called my church's beliefs "nutso", and now you're telling me I need to me more mindful of the possibility that the other side is right? Get over yourself, OK? Did you get appointed God, and I missed that announcement?

The First Amendment says my side is right, and your side is wrong.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"
Zimmy, for the last time, there IS NO LAW that says that women have the right to contraception, except where there are legitimate health needs.
?

The First Amendment says my side is right, and your side is wrong.

By the way, do you even know what the first Amendment says? The insurance coverage of contraception does not establich a religion or prohibit free excercise of religion. Anyone who does not want the contraception does not have to take it. The church isn't required to foot the bill.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

By the way, do you even know what the first Amendment says? The insurance coverage of contraception does not establich a religion or prohibit free excercise of religion. Anyone who does not want the contraception does not have to take it. The church isn't required to foot the bill.

"do you even know what the first Amendment says?"

Sure. Here is the relevent portion...

"prohibits the federal and state governments from establishing an official religion, or from favoring or disfavoring one view of religion over another"

"The church isn't required to foot the bill"

They aren't? Zimmy, if the church's insurance policy is expanded to provide contraception, who do you think does pay the bill? The customer, that's who.

You liberals crack me up. Time and time again, you act as if taking money from businesses is mutually exclusive from taking money from individuals. Liberals act as if there's this giant, infinite ATM out there called "business", which we can raid whenever we want. You could not be more wrong.

How can you not understand that? Have you never ever bought something from a business? Don't those businesses raise your prices as their costs increase?

I work as an actuary Zimmy, which means it's my job to set insurance rates. When state laws require that we increase coverage, guess what? One hundred percent of the time, we pass that on to the customer. Every single time. We have no other choice.

I know what the ist amendment says. Perhaps you should be as well versed in economics 101 as I am with the 1st amendment.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

By the way, do you even know what the first Amendment says? The insurance coverage of contraception does not establich a religion or prohibit free excercise of religion. Anyone who does not want the contraception does not have to take it. The church isn't required to foot the bill.

Do you have any familiarity with the Church's position on this issue? The church doesn't forbid its employees from using contraception for casual sex. The church just refuses to pay for it, because the church believes it's immoral. The 1st amendment clearly gives the Church that right, doesn't it?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Do you have any familiarity with the Church's position on this issue? The church doesn't forbid its employees from using contraception for casual sex. The church just refuses to pay for it, because the church believes it's immoral. The 1st amendment clearly gives the Church that right, doesn't it?

Based on what you are saying, the Catholic church pays for birth control anyway, unless they use a company that does not cover birth control at all. The price the employer is quoted is affected by everyone insured by the insurance provider, not just one particular employer. Obama was wrong to require Catholic organizations to directly fund the contraception. By shifting it to the insurance company, it is not specifically covered by the church.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Based on what you are saying, the Catholic church pays for birth control anyway, unless they use a company that does not cover birth control at all. The price the employer is quoted is affected by everyone insured by the insurance provider, not just one particular employer. Obama was wrong to require Catholic organizations to directly fund the contraception. By shifting it to the insurance company, it is not specifically covered by the church.

"the Catholic church pays for birth control anyway"

If it's used as medicine (which is rare), they pay for it. The vast majority of women on birth control are not using it for medicinal purposes, but for "recreation", I don't know what else to call it.

"The price the employer is quoted is affected by everyone insured by the insurance provider, not just one particular employer"

Absolutely, 100% not true. I do this for a living. In quoting premiums for the vast majority of our customers (employers), we look at how much money that employer costs us in the form of benefits. If the church was one of our customers, and now they're forced to offer more benefits than before, that means my health insurance company will have higher benefits paid than before, which means the church must pay a higher premium. In order for my profit margin (as the insurance company) to stay the same, I have to raise my rates for the Church.

Zimmy, trust me on this. The premium you pay for any insurance policy is the expected value of what the insurance company will pay out in benefits, plus expenses (rent on the building, etc) plus a small profit load. In this case, when you increase coverage, that necessarily means that the insurance company will pay more dollars out in the form of benefits, which necessarily means they increase the premium.

Think of your auto policy. Let's say you only have liability coverage, not physical damage. If you call your agent (or company) and tell them you want to add physical damage coverage to your vehicle, you don't fully expect to pay more? You have to pay more.

"By shifting it to the insurance company, it is not specifically covered by the church"

I do not know what planet you, or Obama, live on. Zimmy, from where do you think businesses get their money? From revenue, from the customer. When a business has an increase in expenses, that is almost always passed on the customer. In this case, when an insurance policy is modified to increase coverage, it is always associated with an increase in costs. Always...

If what you and Obama said was true, that would mean you could get something for nothing. The real world doesn't work that way Zimmy. When the feds take money from businesses (through tax hikes, raising the minimum wage, whatever), the businesses pass that expense on to the customer.

Zimmy, neither you nor Obama can claim that taking money from business somehow "spares" the customers of that business from paying more. It may sound great in a press conference. But it's completely ridiculous, and I bet you know that.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"the Catholic church pays for birth control anyway"

If it's used as medicine (which is rare), they pay for it. The vast majority of women on birth control are not using it for medicinal purposes, but for "recreation", I don't know what else to call it.



Zimmy, trust me on this. .

Please give an actual percentage of woman who use birth control pills for medicine, if you know it. Otherwise, you are just speculating.

Did you work specifically in health insurance?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Please give an actual percentage of woman who use birth control pills for medicine, if you know it. Otherwise, you are just speculating.

Did you work specifically in health insurance?

"Please give an actual percentage of woman who use birth control pills for medicine"

Common sense, i don't have #'s. I see that you didn't provide #'s to say that more Republicans get divorced, so it's OK when you speculate I guess.

"Did you work specifically in health insurance?"

I did, and do. But even if I didn't, I'd know that the liberal "myth" that taking $$ from businesses is easier on people than taking $$ from people, is a crock. And I bet you know it, too.