Should we be better than this

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

Were there WMD or not? .

There were scattered chemical weapons made in the 1980's, prior to our 1990 invasion, which according to the article you posted "The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added."

That was not why we went to war. That is not what we were told they had. It was a current and imminent threat, including a false report of an attempt to buy nuclear materials that was presented to congress and via state of the union. Prior to the speeches by Bush and Powell, the report was deemed not credible, but went forward against the advice of the person who originated the report.

This is such old news it is ridiculous. Why the heck do followers of conservative talk radio keep spewing the childish cry of left wing liberal media bs. It is such horse manor. This isn't China, you can get your news from any source you like and it all concludes that there was no weapons program.

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by zimmy

There were scattered chemical weapons made in the 1980's, prior to our 1990 invasion, which according to the article you posted "The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added."

That was not why we went to war. That is not what we were told they had. It was a current and imminent threat, including a false report of an attempt to buy nuclear materials that was presented to congress and via state of the union. Prior to the speeches by Bush and Powell, the report was deemed not credible, but went forward against the advice of the person who originated the report.

This is such old news it is ridiculous. Why the heck do followers of conservative talk radio keep spewing the childish cry of left wing liberal media bs. It is such horse manor. This isn't China, you can get your news from any source you like and it all concludes that there was no weapons program.

Nice reply see we are finding common ground there were indeed WMD's.
The rest of the reply shall we say leaves me baffled because you state this as facts without providing links which could reinforce your argument. For example who deemed it false and what proof did they have?
When it comes to weapon programs how on earth can anyone prove there were or were not any programs going on without being part of Saddam's regimen? This is a very long report:
Iraq: A Chronology of UN Inspections | Arms Control Association

Remember the inspectors were not allowed into the mosque and were not given total access to any where they wanted to go:
Iraq: A Chronology of UN Inspections | Arms Control Association


You say it is ridiculous and old news but consider the fact that I am no longer an avid talk radio fan, which when I was I listened to both sides all day long so I would be better prepared to discuss the issues knowing what both sides had to say. I don't watch foxnews or for that matter much news at all primarily because no matter how much I learned and presented to others they refused to listen and voted this guy into office. Lets just say I gave up on trying to sway anyones opinion after he was voted in. I sincerely hoped he would be a great president not only because I want what is best for this country but also because he was non-Caucasian and I hoped this would once and for all end the racial tensions. I have since realized the tensions will never go away and once again have almost given up hope.
I hope we are getting closer toward respecting each others opinion and look forward to your reply, if you chose to reply again.

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

Nice reply see we are finding common ground there were indeed WMD's.
The rest of the reply shall we say leaves me baffled because you state this as facts without providing links which could reinforce your argument. For example who deemed it false and what proof did they have?
When it comes to weapon programs how on earth can anyone prove there were or were not any programs going on without being part of Saddam's regimen? This is a very long report:
Iraq: A Chronology of UN Inspections | Arms Control Association

Remember the inspectors were not allowed into the mosque and were not given total access to any where they wanted to go:
Iraq: A Chronology of UN Inspections | Arms Control Association


You say it is ridiculous and old news but consider the fact that I am no longer an avid talk radio fan, which when I was I listened to both sides all day long so I would be better prepared to discuss the issues knowing what both sides had to say. I don't watch foxnews or for that matter much news at all primarily because no matter how much I learned and presented to others they refused to listen and voted this guy into office. Lets just say I gave up on trying to sway anyones opinion after he was voted in. I sincerely hoped he would be a great president not only because I want what is best for this country but also because he was non-Caucasian and I hoped this would once and for all end the racial tensions. I have since realized the tensions will never go away and once again have almost given up hope.
I hope we are getting closer toward respecting each others opinion and look forward to your reply, if you chose to reply again.

I am happy to reply, but if my friend died because of spent 500 scattered non-functioning shells of mustard gas from the 1980's then f' that lying sob george bush and cheney. Hardly wmds if they can't even be used. They scared Americans with threats of imminent attack of actual usable wmds and nuclear materials, tied Saddam to 911 and Al Qaeda. They said there were functioning weapons manufactuirng facilities. They wanted the oil and to enact the plan of PNAC. A lot of American's paid with their lives and limbs. Nobody ever denied that Saddam used weapons on the Kurd's at the end of the war with Iran. We supported Iraq in that war, remember? We knew they had them. In fact, it is now declassified that the function of the Liberty ship my dad served on in the 1960's in the Pacific was to test those chemicals. He and the other sailors got to go up and clean the deck after the primates got gassed. He gets to go to the VA regularly for monitoring. Those non-functioning old weapons were not what was presented as reason for war and certainly do not fit the definition of functioning wmd's whether you want to spin it that way or not. I actually didn't know there was anyone out there still trying to spin that bs.

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by zimmy

I am happy to reply, but if my friend died because of spent 500 scattered non-functioning shells of mustard gas from the 1980's then f' that lying sob george bush and cheney. Hardly wmds if they can't even be used. They scared Americans with threats of imminent attack of actual usable wmds and nuclear materials, tied Saddam to 911 and Al Qaeda. They said there were functioning weapons manufactuirng facilities. They wanted the oil and to enact the plan of PNAC. A lot of American's paid with their lives and limbs. Nobody ever denied that Saddam used weapons on the Kurd's at the end of the war with Iran. We supported Iraq in that war, remember? We knew they had them. In fact, it is now declassified that the function of the Liberty ship my dad served on in the 1960's in the Pacific was to test those chemicals. He and the other sailors got to go up and clean the deck after the primates got gassed. He gets to go to the VA regularly for monitoring. Those non-functioning old weapons were not what was presented as reason for war and certainly do not fit the definition of functioning wmd's whether you want to spin it that way or not. I actually didn't know there was anyone out there still trying to spin that bs.

I can understand where your hostility comes from but if you take the time to read the links I provided perhaps you will clearly see through the bs. Once again when and if you calm down enough and open your mind you may see through the propaganda that has kept you stoked up or perhaps provide me some proof to back up what your saying, I have no problem seeing actual proof that the republicans also suck.
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[zimmy]

Originally Posted by ecduzitgood

I can understand where your hostility comes from but if you take the time to read the links I provided perhaps you will clearly see through the bs. Once again when and if you calm down enough and open your mind you may see through the propaganda that has kept you stoked up or perhaps provide me some proof to back up what your saying, I have no problem seeing actual proof that the republicans also suck.
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You have not given one ounce of real information that supports the reasons for the war were founded. My mind is open, I am just not someone who believes war should be taken lightly. It is a republican, democrat issue. It is an issue of morality. We can't agree on this. It really goes not much farther than that you feel we should behave as our enemies do, so we really aren't going to come to any sort of middle ground. Bush was going to Iraq whether there was a legit reason or not. His own people said it. If you don't believe that... oh well.

[zimmy]

Just for fun... from your links

1991: Outstanding issues from UNSCOM "Iraq claimed it lost 550 shells filled with mustard gas, but no evidence was found of these weapons"

So they told us about these circa 1991 when we destroyed or oversaw the destruction of over 100,000 special munitions. Those 550 that we found in unusable ancient condition a decade later after we invaded again count as wmd's Bush spoke about?

"In a February 1999 report after leaving Iraq in December 1998, the IAEA declared that no evidence suggested Iraq had succeeded in producing nuclear weapons.
The same report concluded that IAEA activities 'have revealed no indication that Iraq possesses nuclear weapons or any meaningful amounts of weapon-usable nuclear material, or that Iraq has retained any practical capability (facilities or hardware) for the production of such material.'

On top of that, at the time they used it, Bush new the yellowcake story was unfounded. Great way to go to war.

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Just for fun... from your links

1991: Outstanding issues from UNSCOM "Iraq claimed it lost 550 shells filled with mustard gas, but no evidence was found of these weapons"

So they told us about these circa 1991 when we destroyed or oversaw the destruction of over 100,000 special munitions. Those 550 that we found in unusable ancient condition a decade later after we invaded again count as wmd's Bush spoke about?

"In a February 1999 report after leaving Iraq in December 1998, the IAEA declared that no evidence suggested Iraq had succeeded in producing nuclear weapons.
The same report concluded that IAEA activities 'have revealed no indication that Iraq possesses nuclear weapons or any meaningful amounts of weapon-usable nuclear material, or that Iraq has retained any practical capability (facilities or hardware) for the production of such material.'

On top of that, at the time they used it, Bush new the yellowcake story was unfounded. Great way to go to war.

Now we are getting solmewhere but please bear with me.
You say Bush knew and yet provide no proof to back it up and get angry that I won't take your words as proof. Show me; the burden of proof is on you to back up your statements is all I'm saying. It is not up to me to search for your information in order to debate your supposed facts.
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