Unions stealing "occupy bostons" thunder

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by Karl F

Yes Pete, better days they were.. the Doc made house calls, and was paid money.. if he came in the evening, he was most likely made a drink by the old man, and mom cooked him a home made dinner... at least it worked that way in my house... back then... the doc was not buried in student loans, malpractise insurance costs, lawyers fees, only needed one secretary/bookeeper, most likley his wife, no the staff, that plauges the doctors of today.. I could rant on the other stuff too.. but will stop now..thanks for the trip down memory lane, and as the Prophet, George Carlin stated.. "You know why the call it the American Dream don't you?.. It's 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it!"

There WAS a time...however...and some of us, remember... the "Owners" can't wait for us to die off.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Attachment 48778

I think it cynical BS. Its easy to place the blame on some invisible force ..."the man".
The owners do need obediant workers and they also need leaders, creative people, and thinkers. It takes all kinds and there are NO barriers to becoming an owner. Only your own limitations. Unfortunatley for this country, we dont have many obediant workers willing to do low paying jobs so they went overseas.

I've seen too many people, very close to me, come to this country with nothing and become successful. Fueled by hard work and sacrifice.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I think it cynical BS. Its easy to place the blame on some invisible force ..."the man".
The owners do need obediant workers and they also need leaders, creative people, and thinkers. It takes all kinds and there are NO barriers to becoming an owner. Only your own limitations. Unfortunatley for this country, we dont have many obediant workers willing to do low paying jobs so they went overseas.

I've seen too many people, very close to me, come to this country with nothing and become successful. Fueled by hard work and sacrifice.

Most jobs went over seas so that companies could pad their pockets, make no mistake about it. Consumers never reap the benefits when a company saves money, the owners or the investors do.

If Verizon cuts the benefits that so many think are too good, do you think that you as a consumer will reap some savings off your monthly bill? If you think that keep dreaming....

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Most jobs went over seas so that companies could pad their pockets, make no mistake about it. Consumers never reap the benefits when a company saves money, the owners or the investors do.

True - but its because its too expensive to manufacture here. If it were cheaper, they would not go overseas.

If Verizon cuts the benefits that so many think are too good, do you think that you as a consumer will reap some savings off your monthly bill? If you think that keep dreaming....

I agree, but as a consumer I can go elsewhere and so can employees. If VZ cant get the people to do the jobs, they'll have to improve wages and benefits to attract employees.

Im not saying its a perfect system, its not. I'm saying its not some trap or conspiracy, many work the system to their benefit. It takes sacrifice and work. I think the majority of americans are afraid of hard work. Its much easier to be cynical and blame the man than picking up a shovel and digging through the BS.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

If Verizon cuts the benefits that so many think are too good, do you think that you as a consumer will reap some savings off your monthly bill? If you think that keep dreaming....

I know you mention Verzion to make a point but have you ever had a Verizon guy come to your house? I can honestly say that there was 1 guy that actually was good out of probably 10 I've had come over. The others were the laziest "I'm beating the system" types of guys I've ever met. I have friends that used to work for Verizon, believe me the stories are insane. Guys getting all over other guys that have more than 4 completes in a day etc, etc. They are purposely underperforming so expectations aren't too high.

To follow up to your point, if a company like Verizon continues to increase benefits the consumer will bear the additional cost as an increase in their bill. In a free market, that is where competition steps in .

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Piscator

I know you mention Verzion to make a point but have you ever had a Verizon guy come to your house? I can honestly say that there was 1 guy that actually was good out of probably 10 I've had come over. The others were the laziest "I'm beating the system" types of guys I've ever met. I have friends that used to work for Verizon, believe me the stories are insane. Guys getting all over other guys that have more than 4 completes in a day etc, etc. They are purposely underperforming so expectations aren't too high.

To follow up to your point, if a company like Verizon continues to increase benefits the consumer will bear the additional cost as an increase in their bill. In a free market, that is where competition steps in .

First I will say I am one of those guys. Second work is like a marathon some guys are extremely fast, but make many errors, others are very slow and make very few errors, then there are alot of guys in between. When I started 15 years ago a guy had to do 2- 2.5 repairs a day. Then it was raised every year. The number is not so much for us as much as it is to keep from paying managers their yearly bonuses for not making their quota. When you make the number they say, hmm he made it we need to raise the bar. At what point does the bar stop being raised? Seriously there is way more to doing a job than most people think, like not climbing a pole in front of your house until you inspect that pole, and the ones on each side. This alone takes approximately 10-15 minutes per pole. Multiply that by the number of climbs it takes for a guy working off of a ladder all day and you start to see some discrepancy between ladder guys, and bucket truck guys. But we all have the same target number. So my friend it is not as simple as you make it seem.

As your second point Verizon is not increasing prices to pay more for us, we are pretty much looking to keep what we have. They will not however lower your bill if we settle for less. In the free market the consumer is going to set the price, right now Verizon is beating the pants off of the competition when it comes to that. FWIw they made in the neighborhood of 16 Billion last year and because of tax loopholes paid very little in income tax.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

First I will say I am one of those guys.

Maybe you were the 1 out of 10 that came to my house that was good

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Second work is like a marathon some guys are extremely fast, but make many errors, others are very slow and make very few errors, then there are alot of guys in between.

I could be wrong but my feeling is the Union as a whole takes care of the guys that are average or subpar but not much for the great ones.

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

When I started 15 years ago a guy had to do 2- 2.5 repairs a day. Then it was raised every year. The number is not so much for us as much as it is to keep from paying managers their yearly bonuses for not making their quota.

I’m in sales and I have to produce each year and build off the year before. If I don’t they will be looking for someone to replace me. It not only makes me work harder and try to achieve more, but it also gives me satisfaction in reaching a new goals.

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

When you make the number they say, hmm he made it we need to raise the bar. At what point does the bar stop being raised? Seriously there is way more to doing a job than most people think, like not climbing a pole in front of your house until you inspect that pole, and the ones on each side. This alone takes approximately 10-15 minutes per pole. Multiply that by the number of climbs it takes for a guy working off of a ladder all day and you start to see some discrepancy between ladder guys, and bucket truck guys. But we all have the same target number. So my friend it is not as simple as you make it seem.

Great point, I totally agree that it’s not apples to apples (my buddy’s were more in the city and didn’t have to deal with poles too much). But if productivity stays the same and does not increase then it would be hard to justify future raises etc. Maybe the system to evaluate needs to be changed so that guys aren’t hitting say 4 completes before lunch and expected to shut down for the day by their peers.

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

As your second point Verizon is not increasing prices to pay more for us, we are pretty much looking to keep what we have. They will not however lower your bill if we settle for less. In the free market the consumer is going to set the price, right now Verizon is beating the pants off of the competition when it comes to that. FWIw they made in the neighborhood of 16 Billion last year and because of tax loopholes paid very little in income tax.

They is not only the managers and Verizon executives, “they” are the shareholders. Verizon has a very high stock dividend yield and many investors (some probably guys on this site) are the “they” sharing in the profits via stocks, dividends, 401K etc.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Piscator

I could be wrong but my feeling is the Union as a whole takes care of the guys that are average or subpar but not much for the great ones.

*THIS* is my biggest issue with Unions and is the source of most trouble when dealing with them.

Unions result in no incentive to excel.

Whether it is a teacher's union, Verizon union, Teamsters or any other Local union - the guys who excel are reprimanded (or worse) by their coworkers. If one guy works too hard or puts in too much effort, it makes the lazy bum in the other truck look bad. There's also no incentive to excel because most union contracts provide guidelines of the work required. The union employees are only obligated to do the minimum required work and then that's it.

I know a number of union truck drivers. They get more leisure reading done during a work-week than I do in a year. Why? Because when they are running ahead of their minimum schedule, they sit at the loading dock and kill time as opposed to calling in for another load.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

I've seen too many people, very close to me, come to this country with nothing and become successful. Fueled by hard work and sacrifice.

Like Thomas J. Flatley who came here from Ireland in 1950 with $32 in his pocket, he only ended up making about $1.6 Billion. Gave millions back to charities. His business continues even though he passed on.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Piscator

Like Thomas J. Flatley who came here from Ireland in 1950 with $32 in his pocket, he only ended up making about $1.6 Billion. Gave millions back to charities. His business continues even though he passed on.

My wife and her family came here when she was 11, father died shortly after,mom was dirt poor and didnt speak english, she put her self through college working nights, her brothers opened their own business and put themselves through school. All are very, very successful.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Attachment 48778

If the "owners" own everybody and everything and the media and what you see and hear, then it follows that Carlin, being owned, is a schill for the "owners." I would, therefore, be wary of what he says--might be some sort of trap laid by the "owners." Oh, oh . . . we are all owned . . . this forum is OWNED . . . all these posts must be propaganda paid for and ordered by the "owners." But, of course, you can trust me and Spence.