If Obama is such a bad president why is he going to get relected?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Duke41

The voters are a lot smarter then the Republicans and thier puppets realize.

Unfortunately, 8 years of Bush shows this isn't true. There are alot of people susceptible to the "poor overtaxed me, held down by the liberals" deception of the Karl Rove crowd.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Unfortunately, 8 years of Bush shows this isn't true. There are alot of people susceptible to the "poor overtaxed me, held down by the liberals" deception of the Karl Rove crowd.

Zim, elections are decided by independents. Most independents are successful, educated and angry. O's numbers have dropped significantly among independents. Its not Fox news, rove or anything else liberals want to blame.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Zim, elections are decided by independents. Most independents are successful, educated and angry. O's numbers have dropped significantly among independents. Its not Fox news, rove or anything else liberals want to blame.

And then it REALLY heavily depends on who the Right brings out...

I can see some I's backing Romney, but not Palin/Trump/Huckabee

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

And then it REALLY heavily depends on who the Right brings out...

I can see some I's backing Romney, but not Palin/Trump/Huckabee

Romney is very susceptible to attacks from the other side. Whether he can withstand them the way O did during the last election would be the difference between him being elected or not. Skeletons in his closet aside, I think he might be the best choice right now for the Republicans. He's bright, has a good track record as a successful businessman and is almost as polished as Obama in front of the cameras.

[EarnedStripes44]

Originally Posted by fishbones

is almost as polished as Obama in front of the cameras.

Your kidding right. Obama is as smooth as a hotcomb on nappy a** hair.

[zimmy]

Jimmy,

Those independents re-elected Bush. I think, if anything, that supports my statement. The whole "if you don't elect Bush, you are in danger" scare tactic is exactly what I am talking about. Just because independents are "successful,educated..." doesn't mean they aren't susceptible to propaganda. I am also curious if you think tea party people are independents.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jimmy,

Those independents re-elected Bush. I think, if anything, that supports my statement. The whole "if you don't elect Bush, you are in danger" scare tactic is exactly what I am talking about. Just because independents are "successful,educated..." doesn't mean they aren't susceptible to propaganda. I am also curious if you think tea party people are independents.

or.....they thought John Kerry was an elitist snob from a massivley liberal state. Again - the people picked the lesser of two evils

A portion of the tea party are independents. Google the news reports - there is a breakdown. I think its just over 10%.
The majority of the people I know, including many in this forum, some who are libs - agree with the tea party. I am independent, educated and I agree with everything the tea party seems to stand for. I'll give you a REAL world example - I just returned from visiting my in-laws in Northern CA. As we all know CA is bankrupt. Contra Costa county, just outside SF has a county sales tax of - 10.5% !!! Think of that Zimmy - for every dollar you make - 25-30% goes to the Feds, 5-10% goes to the state, and every dollar you spend - 10% goes to the county. Now add in property tax, all the taxes on phones, intranet, etc. How much of your hard earned dollar do you get to keep? 35 to 40 cents?????
Maybe you think its tea party non-sense. But its cold, hard facts. Now add in raising taxes and lowering deductions for people over 250K, think of what they get to keep is it 25 to 40 cents of every dollar? How inspired will these people be to work hard and innovate?
Can you tell me clearly what you do not agree with the tea party?

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Can you tell me clearly what you do not agree with the tea party?

It is hard to figure out exactly what the tea party crowd would institute if they got power, so I will go down this simple list from the republic party/ tea party contract

1. Repeal the Affordable Care Act (Health Insurance Reform)
I think in the end it will be much better than the current system

2. Privatize Social Security or phase it out altogether
Privatizing social security is stupid.

3. End Medicare as it presently exists
The voucher thing is a joke. Ok, now that you are 65 go out and get your own insurance

4. Extend the Bush tax cuts

Not for over 500,000 imo. tax rate of the 1990's

5. Repeal Wall Street Reform
2000's all over again

6. Protect those responsible for the oil spill and future environmental catastrophes

Cap liabilities for those responsible for environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill and let companies like BP decide which victims deserve compensation for the disaster and what the timeline for relief should be.
F' that
7. Abolish the Department of Education
could use cuts, but there are alot of things that are necessary that would get dumped on the states. So millionaires can pay less taxes? No thanks

8. Abolish the Department of Energy
are you kidding me?
End America's investments in a clean-energy future and disband the organization responsible for oversight of nuclear materials.

9. Abolish the Environmental Protection Agency

Pre 1970's environment was great wasn't it?

10. Repeal the 17th Amendment

This is genius

Enough reasons for you?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

It is hard to figure out exactly what the tea party crowd would institute if they got power, so I will go down this simple list from the republic party/ tea party contract

1. Repeal the Affordable Care Act (Health Insurance Reform)
I think in the end it will be much better than the current system

2. Privatize Social Security or phase it out altogether
Privatizing social security is stupid.

3. End Medicare as it presently exists
The voucher thing is a joke. Ok, now that you are 65 go out and get your own insurance

4. Extend the Bush tax cuts

Not for over 500,000 imo. tax rate of the 1990's

5. Repeal Wall Street Reform
2000's all over again

6. Protect those responsible for the oil spill and future environmental catastrophes

Cap liabilities for those responsible for environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill and let companies like BP decide which victims deserve compensation for the disaster and what the timeline for relief should be.
F' that
7. Abolish the Department of Education
could use cuts, but there are alot of things that are necessary that would get dumped on the states. So millionaires can pay less taxes? No thanks

8. Abolish the Department of Energy
are you kidding me?
End America's investments in a clean-energy future and disband the organization responsible for oversight of nuclear materials.

9. Abolish the Environmental Protection Agency

Pre 1970's environment was great wasn't it?

10. Repeal the 17th Amendment

This is genius

Enough reasons for you?

Zimmy -

"It is hard to figure out exactly what the tea party crowd would institute if they got power"

When you dismiss/demonize everyone who disagrees with you, instead of listening to them, then I can see where you wouldn't understand what they would do. Obviously you don't listen even for a second, because if you did, you wouldn't claim that the Tea Party wants to do away with social security altogether. YOu also claim privatization is stupid. Well, I support privatization, and i can tell you why...anyone with half a brain can invest that money on their own and generate a much better return than what social security generates. To me, that makes some sense. You call it "stupid", and you offer not a word to support it. You only call it "stupid" because Rachael Maddow told you to think it, but you can't explain why...

Paul S, you were unfairly cast in that lot, I apologoze, sir...

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Paul S, you were unfairly cast in that lot, I apologoze, sir...

Thank you, I don't want to be associated with them.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by zimmy

This is genius

Enough reasons for you?

Yes, enough reasons to know why you are uninformed.

[zimmy]

Jimmy, you want the epa ransacked? Department of Energy? End social security? Disagreeing with your gangs lame ideas does not make me uninformed.

[detbuch]

Originally Posted by zimmy

1. Repeal the Affordable Care Act (Health Insurance Reform)
I think in the end it will be much better than the current system

Most think it will be worse. It is also an unconstitutional mandate. But who cares about the Constitution anyway?

2. Privatize Social Security or phase it out altogether
Privatizing social security is stupid.

Another unconstitutional mandate that helps create the originally feared all powerful central government that will inevitably, as such governments will do because they can, overspend the national treasure and create unsustainable debts and bankrupt economic systems that must be taxed at higher and higher rates.

3. End Medicare as it presently exists
The voucher thing is a joke. Ok, now that you are 65 go out and get your own insurance

All forms of universal insurance, whether private or public, will fail to contain costs because universal insurance is a major contributor to higher cost compared to out of pocket payment due to the bigger pocket to pick, and the U.S. Government has the biggest pocket. #^&#^&#^&#^&er over which type of insurance and then grump over unaffordable premiums. At least with some variety and competition, there is a chance of finding something cheaper. Best take Raven's advice and take charge of your own health--stay healthy.

4. Extend the Bush tax cuts

Not for over 500,000 imo. tax rate of the 1990's

"imo" is the key phrase. It's all just opinion--250,000K, 500,000K, 1Mil, 90%, whatever, won't make a difference on budgets or debt. Money will be spent to get votes as always, and government will print and borrow money to lower value of dollar and help it to pay some debt with cheap money, and the economy will be depressed, and eventually (if it doesn't collapse) rebound and the process will continue.

5. Repeal Wall Street Reform
2000's all over again

Repeal, don't repeal, blah-blah, sing-song-sing-song, been reforms-repeals-reforms-new ways to beat the game or the old ways of bribing the politicians. Forgetaboutit.

6. Protect those responsible for the oil spill and future environmental catastrophes

Cap liabilities for those responsible for environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill and let companies like BP decide which victims deserve compensation for the disaster and what the timeline for relief should be.
F' that

Ahh, what the H, just continue to play political games with "disasters" and "crises" as always--nothing new.

7. Abolish the Department of Education
could use cuts, but there are alot of things that are necessary that would get dumped on the states. So millionaires can pay less taxes? No thanks

Another unconstitutional encroachment on the states by the feds. The states pay 90 percent of education cost so another 10 percent "dumped" on them WHERE THE RESPONSIBILITY BELONGS could actually be less costly since there wouldn't be unfunded mandates to adhere to and the people would be more in control of costs, standards, and objectives, and less money would be siphoned out of the states to the national government in order to be partially returned for the benefit of Federal control over state educational responsiibility. And abolishing the dept. would return to the idea of the States as laboratories in the diverse experiments in uplifting their citizens.

8. Abolish the Department of Energy
are you kidding me?
End America's investments in a clean-energy future and disband the organization responsible for oversight of nuclear materials.

"America's investments" is a high-sounding phrase--almost sacred sounding. But it can just be the stultifying sound of the central planner telling us all how it should be done and how much "all Americans" must pay for that plan from on high. No various States deciding on energy policies that suit them (might be some great varieties of ideas)--but the States are too dumb for that--even though the super-intelligent central planners actually come from the States. Do we need an entire Department of Energy to oversee nuclear materials?

9. Abolish the Environmental Protection Agency

Pre 1970's environment was great wasn't it?

Again, another high sounding title that presumes States cannot "protect" their environments. And there must only be adherence to the One Way from on high--not experiments from diverse thinkers throughout the States. And, again, another unconstitutional agency, one of 300 or so administrative agencies that violate the "non-delegation" doctrine inherent in the constitutionally enumerated legislative powers of congress. Not only does the Constitution prohibit congress from delegating its legislative function to another agency, but these regulatory agencies are mini-governments in themsleves, having legislative, executive, and judiciary powers in the same hand, which Madison said was the very definition of tyranny.

10. Repeal the 17th Amendment

This is genius

Enough reasons for you?

Abolishing the 17th ammendment would revert election of senators back to the original constitutional method of appointing them by the State legislators who are chosen by the people of the State. The Senate is supposed to be a deliberative check on hasty decisions of congress and to prevent congress from squandering the national treasury, especially from spending it to buy votes. Now that senators must campaign, they too must spend money and get money to get elected. They are now beholden more to large donors than to the average citizen, and are major political benefactors to large corporations, thus being greatly responsible for those corporations paying little to no taxes. Not only are they now more beholden to big money than to the average citizen, they act more in concert with the national party and are more animals of that party than respondents to their respective States as they were when chosen by their state legislatures and were beholden solely to their States and citizens of those States. This repeal will help to restore power back to the States and away from the Centralized government in Washington D.C. It will help give the States more control of their own distinct problems and cures and devolve power back to the people. The momentum for the massive growth of the central government began in earnest in the beginning of the 20th century and the 17th ammendment was one of the reasons for that growth.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jimmy,

Those independents re-elected Bush. I think, if anything, that supports my statement. The whole "if you don't elect Bush, you are in danger" scare tactic is exactly what I am talking about. Just because independents are "successful,educated..." doesn't mean they aren't susceptible to propaganda. I am also curious if you think tea party people are independents.

Zimmy, are you seriously suggesting that only conservatives use scare tactics? Did you watch any of the 2008 presidential elecvtion, particularly after the economy collapsed? That was all the Dems did, was say "we can't afford 4 more years of this". Of cource, they never said exactly how the crash was the result of conservative ideology, they carefully stayed away from specifics...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Jimmy,

Those independents re-elected Bush. I think, if anything, that supports my statement. The whole "if you don't elect Bush, you are in danger" scare tactic is exactly what I am talking about. Just because independents are "successful,educated..." doesn't mean they aren't susceptible to propaganda. I am also curious if you think tea party people are independents.

Again, the liberal position that if you don't support liberal ideology, it MUST BE because you have been scared by right-wing propoganda. In other words, there can be no rational reason for believeing in conservative principles (low taxes, small govt, sanctity of life, strong national defense).

I've seen what happens everywhere liberal ideology has been implemented...western Europe, Scandanavia, here in CT, any business with labor unions...these are all bastions of liberal policies, and all are completely dysfunctional...

Tea partiers obviously lean to the right, but that doesn't mean they always vote Republican. Many Republican candidates are rejected by the Tea Party, look at what happened in the Deleware Senate race in 2010...

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

Zim, elections are decided by independents. Most independents are successful, educated and angry. O's numbers have dropped significantly among independents. Its not Fox news, rove or anything else liberals want to blame.

Zimmy and Spence will say that independents are souring on Obama because they have been brainwashed, or because they have been irrationally scared, or, save the best for last, they are racist...

One could also speculate that they independents who got him elected have realized that Obama is not the centrist he presented himself to be (although I don't see how anyone could suggest that a man who supported infanticide is a centrist). And that nothing has changed in terms of how things get done. Obama marketed himself as the one who descended from the heavens to unite all of us, that only he could rise above partisan bickering and unite us all.

Well, we are more polarized than ever, myself included.

[PaulS]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Zimmy and Spence and Paul S will say that independents are souring on Obama because they have been brainwashed, or because they have been irrationally scared, or, save the best for last, they are racist...

You have any proof I've ever insinuated anything close to that?