weak Obama proposal

[JohnnyD]

Close corporate tax loopholes, reduce defense spending, reform social programs.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Close corporate tax loopholes, reduce defense spending, reform social programs.

What he said...

Here in CT, our governor recently announced a plan to build a 9.5 mile busway into downtown Hartford, along an abandoned railway. So the plan is to rip up 9.5 miles of rail track, pave a road, and buy a few commuter buses. The cost...wait for it...$570 million.

Honest to God, $570 million to pave 9.5 miles of road. I called the governor's office and asked how it could possibly cost $60 million per mile to pave a road, and I got no answer. Maybe they are paving the road with Fabrege' eggs and hope diamonds. I told them that I'd be willing to do it for half that much, and still have enough profit left over to buy Australia if I wanted...

It's this type of insane, crazy waste we need to get rid of. Do that, and we can balance the budget without raising anyone's taxes, and without having to gut badly needed social programs.

[scottw]

[QUOTE=Jim in CT;851337]What he said...

Here in CT


here in RI


Rhode Island Pension Board Widens Funding Gap 27% by Lowering Return Rate
By Michael McDonald - Apr 14, 2011 12:01 AM ET

Rhode Island’s unfunded public pension liabilities for teachers and most state workers jumped about 27 percent after the board overseeing the retirement system voted to cut the presumed rate of return on assets.

The fund lacks about $6.83 billion to meet projected needs, up from about $5.4 billion before overseers yesterday cut return expectations to 7.5 percent a year from 8.25 percent, according to Treasurer Gina Raimondo. The plan, with $7 billion in assets as of Nov. 30, covers more than 50,000 people.

“It’s a big deal,” said Raimondo, a Democrat who heads the Employees’ Retirement System of Rhode Island board and voted for the change. “I believe it was the right thing to do.”

The move may drive state taxpayers’ fiscal 2013 obligation to the system up 33 percent, to $622 million, from what had been projected, Raimondo said. The pension’s funding ratio, or the proportion of assets to projected liabilities, fell to about 48 percent from 54 percent. Actuaries consider at least 80 percent the level needed to ensure adequate coverage.

The system’s “current real rate-of-return assumption is not justified by asset allocation and forward-looking expected returns by asset class,” consultants from Gabriel Roeder Smith & Co. said in a report that recommended cutting the projections. The nominal rate adopted yesterday includes 5.15 percent on invested assets net of expenses and 2.75 percent for inflation, as recommended by the Irving, Texas-based advisers.

Rhode Island joins states from New Jersey to California and Illinois that face unfunded pension liabilities estimated to be as much as $3.6 trillion, when city plans are included. The Ocean State was ranked sixth-worst, based on assets as of Aug. 20, in data compiled by Bloomberg. Based on data from fiscal 2009, its pension plans had a funding ratio of about 61 percent

[Jim in CT]

Scott, here in CT, the unfunded liabilities for public unionized employees is $34 billion (that's pension and healthcare benefits, I don't know how much goes to each piece). There are 3.4 million people in CT, so that works out to $10,000 for every human in the state, $50k for my soon-to-be family of 5.

The total tax rate in CT is always in the top 5 nationally, yet the politicians primised these uniom employees $34 billion more than they took in. There are only 2 explanations - either our taxes are unreasonably low, or the benefits are unreasonably rich. There isn't a third option.

I told my governor's spokesjerk that if they ever extend that rail line up to the New Hampshire border, to sign me up for a 1-way ticket.

CT is doomed. Doomed.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Scott, here in CT, the unfunded liabilities for public unionized employees is $34 billion (that's pension and healthcare benefits, I don't know how much goes to each piece). There are 3.4 million people in CT, so that works out to $10,000 for every human in the state, $50k for my soon-to-be family of 5.

.

what is a little mind boggling is that they had been calculating returns at 8.25%..."before overseers yesterday cut return expectations to 7.5 percent a year from 8.25 percent"....a rate that they had never achieved in the past...

[Piscator]

Some "Tax" quotes from some pretty intelligent people (yea, I Googled it). Can't really find any I disagree with, can you?


"If, from the more wretched parts of the old world, we look at those which are in an advanced stage of improvement, we still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised, to furnish new pretenses for revenues and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without tribute. " - Thomas Paine

"For example. If the system be established on basis of Income, and his just proportion on that scale has been already drawn from every one, to step into the field of Consumption, and tax special articles in that, as broadcloth or homespun, wine or whiskey, a coach or a wagon, is doubly taxing the same article. For that portion of Income with which these articles are purchased, having already paid its tax as Income, to pay another tax on the thing it purchased, is paying twice for the same thing; it is an aggrievance on the citizens who use these articles in exoneration of those who do not, contrary to the most sacred of the duties of a government, to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." - Thomas Jefferson

"Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery." - Calvin Coolidge

"The government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." - Ronald Reagan

"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other. " - Ronald Reagan

"The tax on capital gains directly affects investment decisions, the mobility and flow of risk capital... the ease or difficulty experienced by new ventures in obtaining capital, and thereby the strength and potential for growth in the economy." - John F. Kennedy

"The taxpayer - that's someone who works for the federal government but doesn't have to take the civil service examination." - Ronald Reagan

"If you make any money, the government shoves you in the creek once a year with it in your pockets, and all that don't get wet you can keep." - Will Rogers

"We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."" - Erwin N. Griswold

"We shall tax and tax, and spend and spend, and elect and elect." - Harry Hopkins

"The tax collector must love poor people, he's creating so many of them." - Bill Vaughan

"Many of you are well enough off that the tax cuts may have helped you. We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Hillary Clinton

"When the federal government spends more each year than it collects in tax revenues, it has three choices: It can raise taxes, print money, or borrow money. While these actions may benefit politicians, all three options are bad for average Americans." - Ron Paul

"The point to remember is that what the government gives it must first take away." - John S. Coleman

"The politicians say "we" can't afford a tax cut. Maybe we can't afford the politicians. " - Steve Forbes

"The real goal should be reduced government spending, rather than balanced budgets achieved by ever rising tax rates to cover ever rising spending." - Thomas Sowell

"We all know what the problems are: it's tax and spend. One party will tax and spend, the other party won't tax but will spend. It's both of them together." - Glenn Beck

"The best things in life are free, but sooner or later the government will find a way to tax them. " - Author Unknown

"Unquestionably, there is progress. The average American now pays out twice as much in taxes as he formerly got in wages." - H.L. Mencken

[scottw]

[QUOTE=Piscator;851349]Some "Tax" quotes from some pretty intelligent people (yea, I Googled it). Can't really find any I disagree with, can you?


after listening to Obama's speech, I think he'd refer to those quotes as "un-American"


Krauthammer considered it “hyper-partisan,” “intellectually dishonest.”

OUCH!!!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...pinion_LEADTop


The Presidential Divider

Obama's toxic speech and even worse plan for deficits and debt..

Did someone move the 2012 election to June 1? We ask because President Obama's extraordinary response to Paul Ryan's budget yesterday—with its blistering partisanship and multiple distortions—was the kind Presidents usually outsource to some junior lieutenant. Mr. Obama's fundamentally political document would have been unusual even for a Vice President in the fervor of a campaign.

The immediate political goal was to inoculate the White House from criticism that it is not serious about the fiscal crisis, after ignoring its own deficit commission last year and tossing off a $3.73 trillion budget in February that increased spending amid a record deficit of $1.65 trillion. Mr. Obama was chased to George Washington University yesterday because Mr. Ryan and the Republicans outflanked him on fiscal discipline and are now setting the national political agenda

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Close corporate tax loopholes

In the first thread I responded to in this forum the other month (shoulda never broke the seal...) there was pretty much unanimous agreement among the conservative crowd that business is overtaxed.

Go back to the tax rates of the 90's, get rid of loopholes, cut some spending and everything will straighten out.

Democrats won't do the cuts and 'pubes won't raise taxes. Both things need to be done.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Democrats won't do the cuts and 'pubes won't raise taxes. Both things need to be done.

I'm not convinced we need to raise taxes. I say, get rid of the indefensible waste first, and if we see that's not enough, then raise taxes. But there is an enormous amount of waste begging to be cut. Tax hikes hsould be a last resort...

[mosholu]

I agree that we have to get really hard core regarding the amount of money that flows out of the government with no real benefit. Part of that is wrapped up in the tax system. Why have lower taxes for capital gains or carried interest it makes no sense when you have a deficit like ours.
As far as the mortgage deduction it will probably be phased out over time starting with second homes and mortgages over X amount and then there will be a drop dead date where it will not be available for any new home purchase.
One of the few things I liked about the President's remarks the other day was when he said everyone wants the deficit cut until it touches on of their perks. Until we get over that mentality I think this is going to be a slow painful process.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by mosholu

I agree that we have to get really hard core regarding the amount of money that flows out of the government with no real benefit. Part of that is wrapped up in the tax system. Why have lower taxes for capital gains or carried interest it makes no sense when you have a deficit like ours.
As far as the mortgage deduction it will probably be phased out over time starting with second homes and mortgages over X amount and then there will be a drop dead date where it will not be available for any new home purchase.
One of the few things I liked about the President's remarks the other day was when he said everyone wants the deficit cut until it touches on of their perks. Until we get over that mentality I think this is going to be a slow painful process.

What "perks" does he mean? They can have mine. I'm saving for "non-Social Security" living know for when I get old. T

[zimmy]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

I'm not convinced we need to raise taxes. I say, get rid of the indefensible waste first, and if we see that's not enough, then raise taxes. But there is an enormous amount of waste begging to be cut. Tax hikes hsould be a last resort...

Can you point out a relatively nonpartisan economist that thinks we can fix our debt problem at this point by cuts alone? I can't find it. I hear politicians say it, but that is mostly because they are looking to incite their voters. The #'s don't add up.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by zimmy

Can you point out a relatively nonpartisan economist that thinks we can fix our debt problem at this point by cuts alone? I can't find it. I hear politicians say it, but that is mostly because they are looking to incite their voters. The #'s don't add up.

That's a fair question, and the answer is "no", I haven't heard any leading economists say that. But I have heard conservative legislators say it, and I also trust my own common sense.

I see a small iota of that waste every day, and so does everyone else who has eyes. The entire stimulus bill ($800B) was essentially useless pork...it's not like lots of new highways or bridges went up.

Tax revenue in this lousy economy, I believe is around $1.5 trillion. The federal budget in 2000 was around $1.5 trillion. In other words, to balance the budget, we need to get spending back to what we spent in 2000.

Can that be done? Certainly. Get rid of wasteful defense programs, Medicare fraud, start cutting services to all the illegals. Reform the tax code so that EVERYONE pays SOMETHING. I think 35% of citizens pay $0 federal income taxes? The folks at the top of that range can pony up a little, they use the roads too, and they rely on the military. It won't be easy, but I am positive we can do it without raising taxes.

The homeowners deduction will not be eliminated while the GOP controls the House. They won't let it happen. Even if they had to filibuster it, they would do it.

I can't believe Obama is even considering that. He's amazing, he cannot even get one right by accident.