year 2010 recreational catch statistics

[Mr. Sandman]

Some of the comments here make me want to puke.
I am ashamed to be even loosely associated with you thru SB or simply by being called a fishermen.

Everyone (including you) have a responsibility to conserve this great fish for future generations...just because you can take the fish doesn't mean you should.

You hang out with the wrong crowd if you don't know anyone who is fishing solely to catch his "legal limit"

One of the proudest moment as a farther figure/sportsmen for me was when my 12 yo son said (as we were hammering big bass one night drifting eels in Quicks)..Dad, these fish are really big...we only need one fish, lets let the others go. He got the idea at 12... why can't you? Maybe it is in the genes...I don't know. I am just an old man who has lost his mind I guess.

[l.i.fish.in.vt]

one of my proudest moments was eating the first keeper my son caught.i guess as i see it if i am going to fish for it i am going to eat it.nothing worse than killing some for the sport of it,just my opinion

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sandman

Some of the comments here make me want to puke.
I am ashamed to be even loosely associated with you thru SB or simply by being called a fishermen.

Everyone (including you) have a responsibility to conserve this great fish for future generations...just because you can take the fish doesn't mean you should.

You hang out with the wrong crowd if you don't know anyone who is fishing solely to catch his "legal limit"

One of the proudest moment as a farther figure/sportsmen for me was when my 12 yo son said (as we were hammering big bass one night drifting eels in Quicks)..Dad, these fish are really big...we only need one fish, lets let the others go. He got the idea at 12... why can't you? Maybe it is in the genes...I don't know. I am just an old man who has lost his mind I guess.

Sorry but I cant tell my clients that they have to throw everything back. Charter Boats, Head Boats, Party Boats have Paying customers that are paying to come on the boat, catch fish, and bring home meat and you cant blame them for it. Doesnt matter if its groundfish or SB. Yes I enjoy eating striped bass, sorry. I do kill some and I do let some go. I'm sorry everyone does not share the same beliefs as you do but everyone cant afford to just go out to fish for fun either....

[fatcow]

WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :bc . On every site u see the same thing +itching and moning. Do yourself a favor don't point ur finger at someone else. There is no I in team. I see as many dead fish on the rocks when i rec fish as i do when i com fish. I fish when the fish show up and fish til they leave. Personaly i think the recs kill way more fish. Go to the other site and watch someone post the canal was hot. Next day the road will be loaded with dead fish.. What about the striper cup lots of teams = lots lbs of dead pounds. I rather sell a 20lb fish for $ than see someone weight one in to win a $10 prize. Com go buy quota fill it its over. If they want to shut it down just get it over with and shut it down. Every winter we see the same thing com Bashing and recs clashing. The problem wont be solved if both sides dont agree with each other.

[Jackbass]

Originally Posted by fatcow

WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :bc . On every site u see the same thing +itching and moning. Do yourself a favor don't point ur finger at someone else. There is no I in team. I see as many dead fish on the rocks when i rec fish as i do when i com fish. I fish when the fish show up and fish til they leave. Personaly i think the recs kill way more fish. Go to the other site and watch someone post the canal was hot. Next day the road will be loaded with dead fish.. What about the striper cup lots of teams = lots lbs of dead pounds. I rather sell a 20lb fish for $ than see someone weight one in to win a $10 prize. Com go buy quota fill it its over. If they want to shut it down just get it over with and shut it down. Every winter we see the same thing com Bashing and recs clashing. The problem wont be solved if both sides dont agree with each other.

People do have to work together to make anything of value happen in the long run it is not a com problem or a rec problem it is an everyone problem. To say one group had to give everything up and the other is right is foolish. Fisherman whether they like it or not have to work within the current confines of the management system or get together and come to an agreement on something that works for everyone. Conservation is about the fish not the fishermen. Everyone will need to make concessions to move forward. Otherwise we will all sit here talking about it while nothing changes.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[MakoMike]

Seems to me that what we have here is a failure to communicate.
"Conservation" means different things to different people and lets not confuse "conservation" with "allocation" Allocation meaning how much each sector, commercial vs recreational gets to catch. Conservation to some at one end of the spectrum seems to mean having the maximum number of fish in the water that nature can sustain. At the other end of the spectrum it seems to mean having enough fish in the water so that they can be easily caught. Neither is the basis for fishery management in this country!

Fishery management in this country is based on achieving and retaining a biomass (fish population) that is capable of providing the maximum sustainable yield (MSY). That is the most fish that can be caught year after year, and every year, without reducing the population of fish. The scientists come up with the figure for the biomass that will provide MSY. Then they do stock assessments which provide an estimate of the current biomass. Then the Acceptable Biological Catch (ABC) is estimated to either keep the biomass at MSY or rebuild it to the MSY biomass. The ABC is then adjusted by various factors to come up with the Annual Catch Limit (ACL) The regulations are then crafted using statistical models to meet the desired ACL.

The key take away for the purposes of this discussion is that the ACLs will be designed to keep the biomass at MSY. In the case of stripers the biomass is already above MSY, so there will be no tightening of the regulations. You can bitch and moan about it all you want, it won't affect national policy unless and until you get your Congressmen and Senators to change the rules of the game. Right now the ASMFC would be breaking the law to enact stricter regulation on stripers.

[MAKAI]

You could say this is spending the money in the bank.

While our direct deposit is being reduced.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by MAKAI

You could say this is spending the money in the bank.

While our direct deposit is being reduced.

Good analogy but (hopefully) a wrong conclusion. What we are supposed to be spending is the interest on the money in the bank and never touch the principal. We just have to hope they have the science right.

[Circlehook]

Is the Rec. total lbs caught, or lbs killed? Or is it considered one in the same?

That total is probably horrifically low. I for one have never had anyone come up to me at 2 in the morning to tally up my catch for the year.

[MikeToole]

Originally Posted by MakoMike

The key take away for the purposes of this discussion is that the ACLs will be designed to keep the biomass at MSY. In the case of stripers the biomass is already above MSY, so there will be no tightening of the regulations. You can bitch and moan about it all you want, it won't affect national policy unless and until you get your Congressmen and Senators to change the rules of the game. Right now the ASMFC would be breaking the law to enact stricter regulation on stripers.

Problem is the MSY can be the most manipulated number of all of aspects of requlation. Even ASMFC guidelines allow for adjustment based on human factors. Plus they would not be breaking the law on this in that they can adjust the MSY. The only real hard number is if they drop below the target guidelines that forces them to take action but then target numbers will change as you adjust MSY.

Determining the MSY is based on so many factors the number is close to being a pull out of your butt number. The main factor being it has to be determined on the whole bio-mass rather then just stripers. If we were looking at reaching the MSY for just stripers we would stop all bunker fishing and reduce herring, mack and squid harvest to ensure a larger food supply for stripers so the ocean could support more. If we were looking to max out the MSY harvest of bunker we would try to kill all of the bluefish and stripers. Here is where ASMFC comes into play in that they are trying to set this balancing act. You do not need to have congress change anything. You need to get ASMFC to put more focus on increasing the major food fish (stripers, blues, fluke ..) MSY. This can be done by protecting the prey fish by recognizing that the MSY needs to be lower for them because we need them to feed the food fish to support higher MSY for them.

[MakoMike]

Originally Posted by MikeToole

Determining the MSY is based on so many factors the number is close to being a pull out of your butt number. The main factor being it has to be determined on the whole bio-mass rather then just stripers. If we were looking at reaching the MSY for just stripers we would stop all bunker fishing and reduce herring, mack and squid harvest to ensure a larger food supply for stripers so the ocean could support more. If we were looking to max out the MSY harvest of bunker we would try to kill all of the bluefish and stripers. Here is where ASMFC comes into play in that they are trying to set this balancing act. You do not need to have congress change anything. You need to get ASMFC to put more focus on increasing the major food fish (stripers, blues, fluke ..) MSY. This can be done by protecting the prey fish by recognizing that the MSY needs to be lower for them because we need them to feed the food fish to support higher MSY for them.

The Biomass necessary to support MSY is determined on a species for species basis. It is a finite number, there is no "max out" MSY, you are either over, under or at biomass MSY. That is true for fluke, blues, stripers and menhaden. Stripers are at a biomass over MSY, so no one is going to anything to reduce the fishing mortality on stripers. Fluke is at a biomass under MSY, so we will continue to see strict catch regulations until the biomass reaches MSY (which on target to be reached in 2013). The only "prey fish" that has a fishery management plan is Menhaden, and the menhaden biomass is at MSY, so don't expect any stricter regulations on Menhaden.

Both NMFS and ASMFC have been talking about regulating fisheries with an ecosystem approach for years, but so far neither of them has even taken a first step in that direction.