Anyone following what's going on in Wisconsin?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

The problem is not the unions, it is the people who manage and agree to the contracts the union presents. The union bashing really needs to stop.

I'm forced to deal with multiple different unions throughout the country. Every single encounter I have with them reaffirms the stereotype. They take longer to do the job and have stifling restrictions on clients. If we are working with a Union, the labor budget needs to be increased by 50% - consistently.

I have clients that have stopped hosting conferences in places like NYC, Chicago and San Francisco because the Unions are more expense, provide poor service and do a bad job.

The "well, we have to get paid too" mentality is the problem. The managers aren't the problem, the Union philosophy of Entitlement is the problem.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

If we are working with a Union, the labor budget needs to be increased by 50% - consistently.

Any rational person, unless they get their money from labor unions, will say the same thing.

And why do these labor unions get to force people to join them? If I want to be a public schoolteacher, why am I forced to join a damn union? Why do I have to pay dues to an uber-liberal organization, which gives zillions of dollars to liberal politicians (the more liberal, the better) and liberal causes like Planned Parenthood?

Anyone want to tell me how that's fair?

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

(the more liberal, the better) and liberal causes like Planned Parenthood?

Jim,
You're improving.
page 3 before you took the abortion u-turn

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Jim,
You're improving.
page 3 before you took the abortion u-turn

I can't give him crap though because he and I are on the same page when it comes to the ridiculousness of Unions.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Jim,
You're improving.
page 3 before you took the abortion u-turn

If I get banned from this board, so be it, I'm tired of this dance...

Rockhound, instead of changing the subject, how about answering my god-damned question? Is that too much to ask?

Yeah, I know, I get worked up about silly little things like the whosale slaughter of 4000 babies a day. I'm always making something out of nothing.

Since you didn't even attempt to address the question I asked, I'll take that to mean you have no answer. Because no one should have their pay involuntarily confiscated and given to political causes that are contrary to your ethics.

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If I get banned from this board, so be it, I'm tired of this dance...Rockhound, instead of changing the subject, how about answering my god-damned question? Is that too much to ask?

What question? For the record, you changed the subject with the leap between union dues and planned parenthood

Unions typically fund those that help the unions. Just like the Koch give money to those that support their causes. Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood?

Seriously, you're like arguing with the dog from Up, but instead of getting distracted by a squirrel, it's the 'Abortion' right turn.

Do I think everything about every union is fair? Of course not. Do I think that when a union supports a politician they all run out and vote for said pol? No. Do I think the benefit to the workers, in things like healthcare and worker rights outweigh the dues, in most cases, yes.

As far as getting banned, this isn't the other site, and I'm more apt to ignore list people than report them.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

What question? For the record, you changed the subject with the leap between union dues and planned parenthood

Unions typically fund those that help the unions. Just like the Koch give money to those that support their causes. Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood?

Seriously, you're like arguing with the dog from Up, but instead of getting distracted by a squirrel, it's the 'Abortion' right turn.

Do I think everything about every union is fair? Of course not. Do I think that when a union supports a politician they all run out and vote for said pol? No. Do I think the benefit to the workers, in things like healthcare and worker rights outweigh the dues, in most cases, yes.

As far as getting banned, this isn't the other site, and I'm more apt to ignore list people than report them.

well, union dues and membership generally are not voluntary and neither is abortion(for the aborted).....
isn't planned parenthood an inaccurate name?...shoudn't it be "unplanned"...and....anything but "parenthood"?
they both, through their actions, produce a lot of democrat voters for life

only because you asked Bry

my favorite argument against abortion came from one of the founders of the suffrage movement "women's rights" who said, (paraphrasing) we've worked very long and hard to reach a time when we are not treated by society as property, it would be wrong to treat our unborn children as property...you get the idea....

ask yourself...which will land you in more trouble currently? stepping on a piping plover..... or aborting a/your child?


what is "the Koch"?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by scottw

well, union dues and membership generally are not voluntary

The 2 places where I've worked in a Union environment neither was Mandatory to join the union.

of the 2, GE did require you to pay a fee to the union if you didn't join that was equal to the Union Dues.

The Shipyard, where I am currently working, is completely voluntary, no fee charged if you decide to not to join.

I'm not %100 sure but I think it is Illegal to force somebody to join a Union. I'll see igf I can find something on the Internet about it.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

What question? For the record, you changed the subject with the leap between union dues and planned parenthood

Unions typically fund those that help the unions. Just like the Koch give money to those that support their causes. Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood?

Seriously, you're like arguing with the dog from Up, but instead of getting distracted by a squirrel, it's the 'Abortion' right turn.

Do I think everything about every union is fair? Of course not. Do I think that when a union supports a politician they all run out and vote for said pol? No. Do I think the benefit to the workers, in things like healthcare and worker rights outweigh the dues, in most cases, yes.

As far as getting banned, this isn't the other site, and I'm more apt to ignore list people than report them.

"What question?"

I'm sorry, I assumed you read my post before you insulted me for its content. Here is what I wrote...

"why do these labor unions get to force people to join them? If I want to be a public schoolteacher, why am I forced to join a damn union?"

"Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood? "

I have 2 brothers who teach, both have shown me financials from their union that show donations to Planned Parenthood. I don't see why someone who wants to teach kids is forced into giving money to causes that may be reprehensible to them. I think that's a legitimate question.

"it's the 'Abortion' right turn"

I picked Planned Parenthood, which liberals are always saying is about a lot more than abortion, by the way. But I could easily have said, "why are teachers forced to give money to unions who donate to liberal politicians"? It wasn't any right-turn, I'm talking about the insane, absolute power that these unions have.

[likwid]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

"What question?"

I'm sorry, I assumed you read my post before you insulted me for its content. Here is what I wrote...

"why do these labor unions get to force people to join them? If I want to be a public schoolteacher, why am I forced to join a damn union?"

"Where is the link between the public employees union and planned parenthood? "

I have 2 brothers who teach, both have shown me financials from their union that show donations to Planned Parenthood. I don't see why someone who wants to teach kids is forced into giving money to causes that may be reprehensible to them. I think that's a legitimate question.

"it's the 'Abortion' right turn"

I picked Planned Parenthood, which liberals are always saying is about a lot more than abortion, by the way. But I could easily have said, "why are teachers forced to give money to unions who donate to liberal politicians"? It wasn't any right-turn, I'm talking about the insane, absolute power that these unions have.

Do your 2 brothers schools have sex ed?
Guess where the info comes from.

[Sweetwater]

What is going on in Wisconsin is just the beginning of a sort of class warfare arising between unionized gov't workers and the private sector. Much has changed in the private sector even before the 2008 economic crash in terms of job loss, wage freezes and reductions, and reduced benefits (or increased personal contribution to benefits) in the private sector.

People in the private sector no longer wish to pay taxes for benefits that they cannot afford for themselves. A friend said to me (on another website), "Don't forget gov't employees pay taxes too!" However, this is not the point, it's like two guys pay a $5 cover charge to enter a nightclub and for one guy (union) it's an open bar and the other guy (private) still has to pay for every drink.

Some statistics from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

2010, median earnings of unionized government workers were 25% higher than earnings of private workers and 17% higher than non-unionized gov’t workers. (and yes, I've heard the questionable argument about adjusting for education levels)

95% of unionized gov’t workers have a defined benefit pension plan compared to only 21% of private sector workers -- over 4 times as many! Defined plans can be worth many 10's of thousands of dollars lifetime, depending on wage scale.

Health and dental plans: Unioned gov’t workers (95% and 71% respectively). Private sector workers (71% and 46% respectively).

Further, private sector workers (when they do have such benefits) typically have to contribute more into the plan than unionized gov't workers.

Finally, another argument that pro-union gov't workers tout is that many gov't workers do not qualify for social security (this varies from state to state). However, those who don't qualify never paid in FICA! Would I love to have not paid in FICA for the last 35 years and put that into personal retirement plan? You damned straight I would.

I hope the Governor of Wisconsin shuts those unions down..and would love to see major reform in the "commonwealth" of Massachusetts.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Sweetwater

and would love to see major reform in the "commonwealth" of Massachusetts.

Will never, ever happen. The state and towns will go bankrupt, yet still not see a need for changes.

Nice post Paul.

[Sweetwater]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Will never, ever happen. The state and towns will go bankrupt, yet still not see a need for changes.

JohnnyD, when did you become so cynical?

I'm counting on your generation to march on Beacon Hill and fight for change!

By the way, I just read that Guitarist Tom Morello (Rage Against the Machine) called Governor Walker "the Mubarak of the Midwest." Now, let's see, Mubarak enriched himself on the backs of everyday workers and afforded his small, elite group of friends benefits not available to others. So, I ask you, who looks more like Mubarak, the governor or the unions?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Sweetwater

JohnnyD, when did you become so cynical?

I'm counting on your generation to march on Beacon Hill and fight for change!

By the way, I just read that Guitarist Tom Morello (Rage Against the Machine) called Governor Walker "the Mubarak of the Midwest." Now, let's see, Mubarak enriched himself on the backs of everyday workers and afforded his small, elite group of friends benefits not available to others. So, I ask you, who looks more like Mubarak, the governor or the unions?

Being a rockstar doesn't make you an authority on anything, I wish Bono would realize that. Unfortunately, you have the MTV generation who thinks that just because a person is on tv, that they know what they're talking about.

When a celebrity speaks, the Sheeple will follow.

You know me well enough, I've always been cynical. People are lazy and unless their their hand is forced, nothing will change. The British had to lay of 100,000 government workers. Why? Not because they foresaw problems, but because they were out of money.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Sweetwater

People in the private sector no longer wish to pay taxes for benefits that they cannot afford for themselves. :

Bingo.

These unions like collecvtive bargaining? Really?

I have news for them. The taxpayers of Wisonsin did some collective bargaining of their own last November, it was called an "election". The majority of the citizenry voted for the party who said they would cut union benefits, and guess what, that's what they're doing.

What's good for the goose...

Hey Mass. isn't that hopeless, they elected Scott Brown, right?

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

\
Hey Mass. isn't that hopeless, they elected Scott Brown, right?

What's he turning into now.. Book Deal, Major Speaking bucks, Insider Deals. They all turn into trough feeding plutocrats, living off the sheeple

[Sweetwater]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Bingo.

These unions like collecvtive bargaining? Really?

I have news for them. The taxpayers of Wisonsin did some collective bargaining of their own last November, it was called an "election

Two thumbs up to Jim!!