More than 6,400 Mass employees make over $100K

[JohnR]

Surprised this did not get more traction.

A lot of these folks making large coin, especially in their last three years before retirement is a gift that keeps giving. Its great if you can have it but it is unsustainable.

[Karl F]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Surprised this did not get more traction.
.

Really?

Knowing that several jackbooted staties actually read striper boards?

I read my local town report.. local yocals are pulling in well over 100K working the OT, details, and "longevity" bumps, and they all can tell you exactly how many minutes until their pension kicks in, and the up to date balance in their plans....and the DD's is the best protected store front in town.

It's Mass.. the land of Patronage.. remember the 75K a year doorman jobs at the statehouse they were handing out 2 decades ago, to their cousins and in-laws... the 100K a year tool booth jobs...???
it got some ink, but not much action...

we are just used to it... effin SADLY....

[Fly Rod]

I didn't see the thirty five thousand dollar a year social worker on that list.

[TheSpecialist]

That list is crap, look at the 40 hour salary for putting your life on the line. I say good for them they are working many more hours than most of us. Any job that pays a decent hourly wage can turn into a high wage job if you want to work like a dog...

[Raider Ronnie]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

That list is crap, look at the 40 hour salary for putting your life on the line. I say good for them they are working many more hours than most of us. Any job that pays a decent hourly wage can turn into a high wage job if you want to work like a dog...

Spoken like a union man !

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Raider Ronnie

Spoken like a union man !

Most jobs are salaried, if I put it down to an hourly wage, I'd be well below most union rates.

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Most jobs are salaried, if I put it down to an hourly wage, I'd be well below most union rates.

There in lies the problem, salaried should equal 40 hours no more , no less.

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

That list is crap, look at the 40 hour salary for putting your life on the line. I say good for them they are working many more hours than most of us. Any job that pays a decent hourly wage can turn into a high wage job if you want to work like a dog...

B]TRUE![/B]

Every year the daily city paper prints which city employees are making the highest pay. Here it is always the cops. Your average cop starts out at 40,000 some end up making over a hundred thou with the private road work details. Good luck to them for the hours they put in. Most of these shifts are 8 hours. Regular city employees do not make anything close to a hundred thou.

[Piscator]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

B]TRUE![/B]

Every year the daily city paper prints which city employees are making the highest pay. Here it is always the cops. Your average cop starts out at 40,000 some end up making over a hundred thou with the private road work details. Good luck to them for the hours they put in. Most of these shifts are 8 hours. Regular city employees do not make anything close to a hundred thou.

If you think most details that are paid out for 8 hours are actually 8 hours long, you are mistaken. Very ofter a case of beer to the guy overseeing the work (phone company, construction etc) will turn a 3 hour detail into an 8 hour detail with the sign of a paper. The city doesn't pay but the company and ultimatly the consumer does in the end.

[Fly Rod]

Originally Posted by Piscator

If you think most details that are paid out for 8 hours are actually 8 hours long, you are mistaken. Very ofter a case of beer to the guy overseeing the work (phone company, construction etc) will turn a 3 hour detail into an 8 hour detail with the sign of a paper. The city doesn't pay but the company and ultimatly the consumer does in the end.

You are correct about some of what you say, but, around here most details today are 7-8 hours with construction crews excavating and putting in new sewer lines etc:. What is that cop usually doing, on the cell phone, drinking coffee, looking in the hole or bullsh-ting with the worker, that is why some get hit by an oncoming car.

What gets me is the city says it is a safety issue. The cop that goes on his regular 4-midnight shift leaves the road construction 3-3:30 and no cop takes his place. Where is the safety issue when the work goes on to 5 PM.

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

That list is crap, look at the 40 hour salary for putting your life on the line. I say good for them they are working many more hours than most of us. Any job that pays a decent hourly wage can turn into a high wage job if you want to work like a dog...

You have no idea what you're talking about.

In the private scetor, your comment would make sense. Because if someone can make that much money, it';s up to the consumer to decide whether or not they want to absorb that cost. If the company can make a product that people want so badly that they are willing to absorb that cost, kudos to the company.

Public servants are in a very different position. The public cannot freely choose not to bear the burden of that cost, because the cost is a tax that is imposed by rule of law. That's not even remotely comparable to what happens in the free market.

Because of that difference, it's imperitive that public servents come up with compensation that we can reasonably absorb. The current Massachusetts tax levels, combined with the current deficits, tell me that municipal employees are being a bit too generous with themselves.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You have no idea what you're talking about.

In the private scetor, your comment would make sense. Because if someone can make that much money, it';s up to the consumer to decide whether or not they want to absorb that cost. If the company can make a product that people want so badly that they are willing to absorb that cost, kudos to the company.

Public servants are in a very different position. The public cannot freely choose not to bear the burden of that cost, because the cost is a tax that is imposed by rule of law. That's not even remotely comparable to what happens in the free market.

Because of that difference, it's imperitive that public servents come up with compensation that we can reasonably absorb. The current Massachusetts tax levels, combined with the current deficits, tell me that municipal employees are being a bit too generous with themselves.

The consumer is deciding to absorb the cost by continually voting the same town boards right back into office. Certain segments of society go to the town meetings and vote the school budgets in then get up and leave. The rest of the people in attendence care about being safe and vote the fire and police budgets in the affirmative. What a ridiculous asertion, "it's imperitive that public servents come up with compensation that we can reasonably absorb". Jim you just about call public servant thieves, but you think it should be left up to them to figure out a just compensation. Were you an actuary for an insurance company? Did you help set the usurious rates for homeowners I pay, and for collision for my car?

I don't think you should hide behind the anonimity of the internet. I think you should state your purpose at a town meeting where you live. Ya sure he is saying, and have every cop in town after me. After being on a police department for 37 years, I can truthfully say that never happened, and I worked with some pretty foolish people.

Do you fish?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

The consumer is deciding to absorb the cost by continually voting the same town boards right back into office. Certain segments of society go to the town meetings and vote the school budgets in then get up and leave. The rest of the people in attendence care about being safe and vote the fire and police budgets in the affirmative. What a ridiculous asertion, "it's imperitive that public servents come up with compensation that we can reasonably absorb". Jim you just about call public servant thieves, but you think it should be left up to them to figure out a just compensation. Were you an actuary for an insurance company? Did you help set the usurious rates for homeowners I pay, and for collision for my car?

I don't think you should hide behind the anonimity of the internet. I think you should state your purpose at a town meeting where you live. After being on a police department for 37 years, I can truthfully say that never happened, and I worked with some pretty foolish people.

Do you fish?

Swimmer, you asked some great, probing questions. I'll try to respond.

"The consumer is deciding to absorb the cost by continually voting the same town boards right back into office."

I agree, but to a lesser extent. Here's why. If McDonald's gives all their employees a fat raise, and that causes the price of a Big Mac to go up to a price I think is unreasonable, I can easily buy at Burger King (or another competitor) instead. I don't think the same thing applies to politics. I live in CT, which is a state that has been run into the ground by liberals. It's a lot harder for me to say I'm moving to Kansas, than it is for me to switch from McDonalds to Burger King. Does that make sense? I'm much more "stuck" with the decisions made by politicians, than I am with decisions made by private businesses.

"The rest of the people in attendence care about being safe and vote the fire and police budgets in the affirmative."

Hogwash. If you can show me data that says that towns where cops get fat pensions are "safer" than towns where cops have 401(k)'s, I'd love to see it. Same with teachers. There is zero correlation between student performance and teacher compensation.

"you just about call public servant thieves, but you think it should be left up to them to figure out a just compensation."

You're right, it's not the public servents who design compensation...it's their unions, and the elected officials. I do not blame cops for accepting pensions, hell, I'd take it if someone offered me one. But here are 2 irrefutable facts...(1) Massachusetts and CT have tax rates much higher than the national average, so those states have collected a whole lot of money (2) Massachusetts and CT have massive debt and deficits, menaing that despite the fact that they collected so much, they spent a whole lot more. If that's not irresponsible, what the heck is?

"Were you an actuary for an insurance company? "

Yes.

"Did you help set the usurious rates for homeowners I pay, and for collision for my car?"

First, if you thought those rates were excessive, you were free to purchase elsewhere. Second, despite public perception, personal insurance is highly regulated, and has unbelievably thin profit margins. The best companies out there still spend 95 cents of every dollar they collect in premiums. So while you may feel ripped off if you don't have any claims, remember that you are part of a large group that's barely breaking even.

"I think you should state your purpose at a town meeting where you live"

I do. And no, I'm not worried about cops being after me. Please don't put stupid words in my mouth. At the same time, I've never had a cop give me a direct answer to this question...

"If the private scetor did away with pensions 15 years ago because they were simply too expensive, why is it fair that muncipal employees still get pensions? Put another way, why is it unfair for me to expect cops to live with benefits that are similar to what's available to the taxpayers?"

I respect cops, teachers, firefighters. But their financial security is NOT more important to society than anyone else's financial security. If everyone else has to find a way to live with whatever we can accumulate in our 401(k)'s, then certainly cops can too. It makes no sense for public servents to get benefits that dwarf anything available to the public which they claim to serve. A guaranteed pension after only 20 years of service, is simply too expensive. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be looking at the deficits we're looking at.

Swimmer, the numbers speak for themselves. Many states and towns are literally facing bankruptcy because of these union benefits. There are 2, and only 2, explanations for this. Either those municipalities set tax rates unreasonably low, or they promised benefits that were unreasonably rich. You tell me which you think is the case.

"Do you fish?"

Whenever I can!

[TheSpecialist]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You have no idea what you're talking about.

In the private scetor, your comment would make sense. Because if someone can make that much money, it';s up to the consumer to decide whether or not they want to absorb that cost. If the company can make a product that people want so badly that they are willing to absorb that cost, kudos to the company.

Public servants are in a very different position. The public cannot freely choose not to bear the burden of that cost, because the cost is a tax that is imposed by rule of law. That's not even remotely comparable to what happens in the free market.

Because of that difference, it's imperitive that public servents come up with compensation that we can reasonably absorb. The current Massachusetts tax levels, combined with the current deficits, tell me that municipal employees are being a bit too generous with themselves.

By your logic then, we should send everyone home at 40 hours, then have none to pick up the rest of the work. Or should we hire enough people to pick up the extra work, whether or not that work is temporary or non consistent and pay training, and benefits, and salary. do you not think that option 2 would be more expensive to the public? As far as the police goes the details are predominately funded by the private companies and not the taxpayer. Also as a consumer I demand not to sit in line at a toll booth when there are other booths with no one manning them. Either hire more people or pay the piper. I f they have fifty details a day, and it cost them for 50 new officers to cover these details say 80-90 thousand with benefits, but we could work 50 cops and pay each one 60 thousand in ot a year it is not cheaper?

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

By your logic then, we should send everyone home at 40 hours, then have none to pick up the rest of the work. Or should we hire enough people to pick up the extra work, whether or not that work is temporary or non consistent and pay training, and benefits, and salary. do you not think that option 2 would be more expensive to the public? As far as the police goes the details are predominately funded by the private companies and not the taxpayer. Also as a consumer I demand not to sit in line at a toll booth when there are other booths with no one manning them. Either hire more people or pay the piper. I f they have fifty details a day, and it cost them for 50 new officers to cover these details say 80-90 thousand with benefits, but we could work 50 cops and pay each one 60 thousand in ot a year it is not cheaper?

"By your logic then, we should send everyone home at 40 hours, then have none to pick up the rest of the work."

Have you ever worked in the private sector? I'm expected to do my job, regardless of how many hours it takes. That is standard, accepted practice, except for municipal employees I guess.

Specialist, I see that you ignored my question. Gee, I wonder why? I'll post it again...

""If the entire private sector has to live with whatever we can accumulate in our 401(k)'s, why is it unfair to ask our public servents to do the same?"

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by JohnR

Surprised this did not get more traction.

A lot of these folks making large coin, especially in their last three years before retirement is a gift that keeps giving. Its great if you can have it but it is unsustainable.

Retirement isn't based on overtime, just your base salary, which for a lt. on the MSP is probably $120,000 walking in the door. All those details they get is the reason why none of them are ever working the regular shifts on the road.

On the Mass. pike troopers are ordered to work details. If a guy is exhausted after working a double shift, say 4-12 and 12-8, he gets ordered to work a detail during the day shift if no one else takes it, so it doesn't go unfilled. Kind of insane really, but that is the reason most of them are in the cruisers during the detail, because they are too tired to stand up.