Thoughts On Don't Ask Don't Tell?

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

(1) Under DADT, gays had to choose between coming out, or serving in the military. They could not do both. By repealing dadt, gays can come out and serve, so it stands to reason (to me) that more will enlist. Furthermore, today, if a soldier comes out, they are discharged. After dadt is repealed, coming out won't be grounds for discharge. Given those realities, how can we NOT expect more gays in the military..

Again, there wasn't a problem w/ them being there before so who cares if more enlist...as long as they are capable of doing the job, welcome aboard.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

(2) as far as changing the current reality. Under dadt, gays in the military cannot come out. Therefore, no one knows they are gay, and they cannot act gay, so all of the hypothetical problems I proposed are eliminated. Without dadt, gays can "be gay", and therefore all of my hypotheticals become more relevent.

How does one "Act Gay"...more Show Tunes in the Barracks?....pinup posters of Judy Garland? Navy changes there song from Anchors Aweigh to In The Navy by the Village People?

I really don't think anything will change....

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

Again, there wasn't a problem w/ them being there before so who cares if more enlist...as long as they are capable of doing the job, welcome aboard.



How does one "Act Gay"...more Show Tunes in the Barracks?....pinup posters of Judy Garland? Navy changes there song from Anchors Aweigh to In The Navy by the Village People?

I really don't think anything will change....

Dad, you're all over the place, and coming across as someone who won't admit he might be wrong.

First, you said no more would enlist. Now, you're saying who cares if more enlist, because they're already there.

You don't know what "act gay" means? Really? Under dadt, gays have to conceal the fact they are gay, and therefore, NO ONE KNOWS THEY ARE GAY. If you repeal dadt, then 2 generals could dance cheek to cheek at a military ball doing the tango, and tongue kiss, announcing their love to all the world.

If you repeal DADT, gays can come out, announce they are gay, and then, everyone knows they are gay.

If you don't see those 2 things as different (having to hide your gayness and being openly gay) we have nothing more to discuss. You keep dodging my points, and I keep re-stating them, and you keep dodging. It gets tiresome.

[Fly Rod]

Marine Corp has ordered all Marines to be issued aluminum pie plates as standard combat gear to be used to protect backside when in close proximity to another Marine. And mandatory compliance to start using soap on a rope.

[The Dad Fisherman]

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

Dad, you're all over the place, and coming across as someone who won't admit he might be wrong..

This is why I love the Political forum soooooo much. I love the fact that this thread was started by asking what people's "thoughts" were on a subject....and escalated to me not being able to admit I'm wrong and being "All Over the Place" .

Trust Me...I've been married 20 years....I've mastered the art of admitting that I'm wrong....

I see "thoughts" as being opinions, and as far as I knew sombody's opinion is never wrong....facts are wrong...but not opinions. I gave my opinion...and I stand by it, I have no issue w/ gays serving in the military...period. My Opinion...don't care if you don't like it....I'm not changing it.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

First, you said no more would enlist. Now, you're saying who cares if more enlist, because they're already there..

I thought I was pretty consistent on my stand, where did I contradict myself in this thread...I'm not seeing it. I never said no more would enlist, I did say I don't have a problem if more want to serve their country...not denying that. And again it is pretty consistent w/ my stand on the issue.

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

If you don't see those 2 things as different (having to hide your gayness and being openly gay) we have nothing more to discuss. .

I guess we don't....and I'm OK w/ that

Originally Posted by Jim in CT

You keep dodging my points, and I keep re-stating them, and you keep dodging. It gets tiresome.

I don't think I dodged anything...I answered what I thought was correct to me.....I don't know what more you want me to say...Repealing DADT doesn't bother me...

A Lot of things in this forum get "Tiresome".....but its like a train wreck I guess because I keep coming back to poke around...shame on me

[Jim in CT]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

This is why I love the Political forum soooooo much. I love the fact that this thread was started by asking what people's "thoughts" were on a subject....and escalated to me not being able to admit I'm wrong and being "All Over the Place" .

Trust Me...I've been married 20 years....I've mastered the art of admitting that I'm wrong....

I see "thoughts" as being opinions, and as far as I knew sombody's opinion is never wrong....facts are wrong...but not opinions. I gave my opinion...and I stand by it, I have no issue w/ gays serving in the military...period. My Opinion...don't care if you don't like it....I'm not changing it.



I thought I was pretty consistent on my stand, where did I contradict myself in this thread...I'm not seeing it. I never said no more would enlist, I did say I don't have a problem if more want to serve their country...not denying that. And again it is pretty consistent w/ my stand on the issue.



I guess we don't....and I'm OK w/ that



I don't think I dodged anything...I answered what I thought was correct to me.....I don't know what more you want me to say...Repealing DADT doesn't bother me...

A Lot of things in this forum get "Tiresome".....but its like a train wreck I guess because I keep coming back to poke around...shame on me

Dad -

First, I was exgausted and cranky last night, sorry I came across ruder than I should have...

"I never said no more would enlist"

Here is what you said, which I interpreted, incorrcetly, as meaning more would enlist...

"Just because they repealed DADT doesn't mean that all of a sudden there are going to be gays in the military"

Yuo also said that since gays are already in the military, repealing DADT doesn't change much. You said this...

"Never had any issues before...but now that we aren't going to kick them out...its all of a sudden an issue"

My point is that if someone is hiding the fact that he is gay, and no one knows he is gay, that's one thing. If that same guy comes out, tells everyone he's gay, and is openly lusting after other men, that is something different. Maybe it's not more problematic, but it's different. It seemed like you were suggesting that repealing DADT would not change anything.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by The Dad Fisherman

This is why I love the Political forum soooooo much. I love the fact that this thread was started by asking what people's "thoughts" were on a subject....and escalated to me not being able to admit I'm wrong and being "All Over the Place" .

Ah yes, the principle reason I've, for the most part, stopped posting in here - Constructive *discussions* are impossible.

"What's your opinion (though I don't really care unless it's fully in line with mine)?" is a common theme.

Try to create dialog and you're an idiot (or #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&) as soon as you don't agree with someone else's opinion. Political commentary from the media is considered fact and every topic turns into a repetitive, nitpicking, out-of-context battle of selective hearing and verbiage spinning, where someone challenges the people they disagree with to disprove their own outrageous hypothesis.