Poacher caught - again!

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by numbskull

.....but you don't spend the money in MA that you earn from catching fish in MA. Makes no economic sense at all for the state to let out of state commercials fish or sell here, unless they feel the MA commercial fleet by itself could not fill the state's quota. Gives away a significant part of the financial benefit from the state's commercial quota to neighboring states. Hard to see why they allow it.

Out of staters pay way more for a license, ($460 myself), then you spend money on Fuel, Lodging, Food, slip / ramp fees, tackle... How is that not an economic benefit???

If you didnt have out of staters than the rec guys would be bitchin' about the com guys a few more weeks as the season stays open! :-))))

[Diggin Jiggin]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Out of staters pay way more for a license, ($460 myself), then you spend money on Fuel, Lodging, Food, slip / ramp fees, tackle... How is that not an economic benefit???

If you didnt have out of staters than the rec guys would be bitchin' about the com guys a few more weeks as the season stays open!

As a rec only guy it makes no difference at all to me how long it takes the comm guys to fill the state quota. The quota doesn't change so what difference does it make how ling it takes to fill.

If we didn't have out of state guys filling our state quota, then the guys that do live here & fish commercially would get a few more weeks to catch & sell fish & they would make more money is a season.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Out of staters pay way more for a license, ($460 myself), then you spend money on Fuel, Lodging, Food, slip / ramp fees, tackle... How is that not an economic benefit???

If you didnt have out of staters than the rec guys would be bitchin' about the com guys a few more weeks as the season stays open!

A lot of what you post is self-serving, but this is ridiculous.

You make a profit in MA commercial fishing and you take it home with you.......otherwise you wouldn't be here. If you are as good as you make yourself out to be, then it is not a small profit either. That money benefits the state you spend it in. Presumably you pay taxes on it (although I'd bet many guys don't) and use the rest for your family's living expenses. That money in turn gets taxed and spent by others where you live (multiplier effect). If a million dollars leaves MA it results in several million dollars of lost economic activity. That is money that could be helping the people of MA.

So explain to me again how it is in the State's interest to allow out of state utilization of our commercial quota?

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by numbskull

A lot of what you post is self-serving, but this is ridiculous.

You make a profit in MA commercial fishing and you take it home with you.......otherwise you wouldn't be here. If you are as good as you make yourself out to be, then it is not a small profit either. That money benefits the state you spend it in. Presumably you pay taxes on it (although I'd bet many guys don't) and use the rest for your family's living expenses. That money in turn gets taxed and spent by others where you live (multiplier effect). If a million dollars leaves MA it results in several million dollars of lost economic activity. That is money that could be helping the people of MA.

So explain to me again how it is in the State's interest to allow out of state utilization of our commercial quota?

I know I spend several thousand in mass on gas, food, lodging every year, every dollar spent in mass has an economic benefit. Any diferent than rec guys traveling to other states to recreationally fish. Cmon, We all know how expensive fishing is...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[ecduzitgood]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

I know I spend several thousand in mass on gas, food, lodging every year, every dollar spent in mass has an economic benefit. Any diferent than rec guys traveling to other states to recreationally fish. Cmon, We all know how expensive fishing is...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

You wouldn't be spending the money unless you were getting a return on the investment.

[Sea Dangles]

$460 is a few good fish.It really makes no sense for anyone in the commonwealth.I feel if there were reciprocation it would be worth considering,otherwise it is lose,lose for the state.Oh well,something else for people to whine about obviously.

[animal]

I think this is getting off track.This is about a poaching dirtbag.Not about rec/comm.
Oh yeah,I say throw everything that they can,at him,including illegal charters if that's the case(I think I read he's not a Cpt,right)If he's chartering illegally,that fine would probably be more than the poaching fines.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

I know I spend several thousand in mass on gas, food, lodging every year, every dollar spent in mass has an economic benefit. Any diferent than rec guys traveling to other states to recreationally fish. Cmon, We all know how expensive fishing is...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

The quota is worth a fixed number of dollars to the state. A guy who comes in and spends 2000 dollars and leaves with 8000 dollars reduces the value of that quota by 8000 dollars and creates a net loss for the state of 6000 dollars initially, but probably closer to 10,000 dollars after multiplier effects are accounted for.

So, again, as a citizen of MA why should my family, my neighbors, and myself lose 10,000 dollars of economic activity so you can come here and sell fish? Talk about a resource grab....this one is a grand-daddy.

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by numbskull

The quota is worth a fixed number of dollars to the state. A guy who comes in and spends 2000 dollars and leaves with 8000 dollars reduces the value of that quota by 8000 dollars and creates a net loss for the state of 6000 dollars initially, but probably closer to 10,000 dollars after multiplier effects are accounted for.

So, again, as a citizen of MA why should my family, my neighbors, and myself lose 10,000 dollars of economic activity so you can come here and sell fish? Talk about a resource grab....this one is a grand-daddy.

Mass guys sell in Ri, Ct guys sell in ri, mass, Ri guys sell on mass and so on... It goes on with the bigger draggers, comm vessels selling out way more than a grand of fish in different states, ur talking millions. There were some scallops coming in from Va into mass??? Fluke draggers from nc selling out in Nj??? It's all really damn confusing..... Anyway, I gotta finish up the night shift and get ready for Tuesday, wed, thurs!!!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[CowHunter]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Mass guys sell in Ri, Ct guys sell in ri, mass, Ri guys sell on mass and so on... It goes on with the bigger draggers, comm vessels selling out way more than a grand of fish in different states, ur talking millions. There were some scallops coming in from Va into mass??? Fluke draggers from nc selling out in Nj? Then all the stripers sold in mass go to auction get shipped to Va, even Canada? Why are the stripers being sold to out of staters?? It's all really damn confusing..... Anyway, I gotta finish up the night shift and get ready for Tuesday, wed, thurs!!!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Mass guys sell in Ri, Ct guys sell in ri, mass, Ri guys sell on mass and so on... It goes on with the bigger draggers, comm vessels selling out way more than a grand of fish in different states, ur talking millions. There were some scallops coming in from Va into mass??? Fluke draggers from nc selling out in Nj??? It's all really damn confusing..... Anyway, I gotta finish up the night shift and get ready for Tuesday, wed, thurs!!!!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It is not confusing at all, and I'm sure you are smart enough to know that there is an interstate commerce in fish taken from federal waters that has nothing to do with state quotas, as well as an interstate commerce in fish caught legally in state waters but governed by a coast-wide quota.

You are also smart enough to know that you have no valid argument as to why the current system allowing you to profit from the quota allocated to the residents of MA should be allowed to stand. Hence your obvious obfuscations and sudden convenient confusion.

But for now, the system is what it is, you are well within your rights to fish here,.....and from my perspective dead fish are dead fish so I don't really care who kills them. Even though it would be nice to see more of the profit from killing them benefit the citizens of my state, it isn't happening anytime soon, so for now your can feel safe being smug........which obviously you also know.....but please spare us the phony rationalizations as to why it is all good and grand for the rest of us.

[dannyplug1]

Well put, a striper is a migratory fish it should be managed by the feds, just like migratory birds like ducks. Another point remember that once migratory birds were legally hunted for proffit by market hunters. Market hunters have gone the way of the passenger pidgeon. Hopefully people will wake up and protect the striped bass from the vast majority of commercials and the recs who both take as many fish as they are legally entiltled to with no thought of the future or the health of the striped bass fishery. Who knows, during the current downward spiral (which is occurring ask any fisheries scientist or a reasonable person) we might be able to finish off striper this time. We came close in the eighties but this time it could be forever! Charlie

[Raven]

I think there is STILL ...........much to be learned

speaking of dead fish..... that includes the small fry encountering
pollution where they hatched out and how farmers need to prevent run off from reaching the breeding grounds.

when you consider how many eggs each Cow lays and how many dinks actually survive the Journey back to the sea....

much could be done to increase those odds in the Striper's favor.

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by numbskull

A lot of what you post is self-serving, but this is ridiculous.

You make a profit in MA commercial fishing and you take it home with you.......otherwise you wouldn't be here. If you are as good as you make yourself out to be, then it is not a small profit either. That money benefits the state you spend it in. Presumably you pay taxes on it (although I'd bet many guys don't) and use the rest for your family's living expenses. That money in turn gets taxed and spent by others where you live (multiplier effect). If a million dollars leaves MA it results in several million dollars of lost economic activity. That is money that could be helping the people of MA.

So explain to me again how it is in the State's interest to allow out of state utilization of our commercial quota?

How many products are made in Jersey and shipped up here for sale. Its no different than any other interstate commerce. Protected under federal law.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

How many products are made in Jersey and shipped up here for sale. Its no different than any other interstate commerce. Protected under federal law.

There is no limit on those sales. The government can't go up to Apple and say "hey, you can only sell 2 million laptops tp Massachusetts and 4 million iPhones to New Jersey this year and then you're shut down."

On the other hand, and I think this is numbskull's point which I agree with, the government tells the commercial fishing sector that they can only catch so many lbs of fish. As such, there is a limit to how much money will be made from selling fish. By MA allowing out-of-state people to comm fish here, those people get paid by our local markets, and then they take that money to their home state to be used in the local economies of NY or NJ or wherever, as opposed to being used locally in our state.

If a MA market pays a MA fisherman $1000 for his catch, then the fisherman later uses that money to buy his local coffee at the mom and pop shop, at RedTop for extra tackle/bait and to pay his rent. That money stays locally, helps local businesses and is taxed locally.

On the other hand, if that same $1000 is paid to a NY fisherman, then that money leaves the state with him to stimulate *their* local economy as opposed to the benefits being preserved here.

This is like a micro version of our national trade situation. Every dollar we Americans use for imported goods is a dollar that stops being utilized domestically. With the current state of our economy and the number of people without jobs, every little bit helps.

[Mike P]

Ideally, commercial licenses would only be renewed by filing a 1040/1099 indicating that at least 50% of the taxpayers' gross income was derived from the sale of fish. That's the way it has always been in NY and some other states that issue commercial licenses.

I also wonder how many non-residents are filing Mass tax returns. I have always had to file returns in every state in which I have earned income. Some markets pay by check--some pay by cash. My sense is a lot of cash transactions don't get reported to any state, or to the IRS.

I have no problems with reciprocity--but to me, the height of idiocy is Mass issuing licenses to anglers who either reside in gamefish states, or who live in grandfathered states where Mass anglers either couldn't get a license at all, or couldn't get bass tags.

I also have no problem with Mass grandfathering existing licenses to out-of-staters, but issuing new licenses to people who live in states where we can't get a commercial license is wrong.

It's a different game now, with ASMFC and hard commercial quotas. Mass is doing its full time commercials a disservice. DMF cares more about licensing fees than its own resident commercials who actually make a living from the sea. And that is wrong, any way you slice it.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone who plays by the rules. Report your catches, pay your taxes, and my problem isn't with you--it's with the rule makers.