dont be dissin the Big O!

[spence]

Originally Posted by Fly Rod

Apparently this general does not belong in the public eye. You exspect a field officer to give the finger while being interviewed. He must have watched to many Clint Eastwood war movies.

You sound like you admire his actions.

It's sounding like he was completely aware of the comments. How are the troops in harms way under his leadership supposed to interpret this?

-spence

[scottw]

Originally Posted by spence

. How are the troops in harms way under his leadership supposed to interpret this?

-spence

How are the troops in harms way under his leadership supposed to interpret Obama not talking to Mc Chrystal for 4 months regarding Afghanistan, skipping the laying of the wreath on Memorial Day recently, trashing the military during the campaign and before, using a returning coffin for a cheesy photo op, snubbing wounded troops in Germany and on and on and on with this America hating rat...Mc Chrystal shouldn't have done what he did but this is only made possible by a president that deserves no respect because he makes it very clear that he has little respect for others...except for those thugs around the world that he has a habit of bowing to...McChrystal is just another disgruntled Obama voter finally waking up...pretty much all that's left are the pathetic Obama toe suckers..Obama has earned no respect and will continue to get none...it's just taking some longer than others to wake up to the fact that he's a disaster...

[spence]

Originally Posted by scottw

Mc Chrystal shouldn't have done what he did but this is only made possible by a president that deserves no respect because he makes it very clear that he has little respect for others...

Ahhh, the old "Ken Starr MADE ME LIE" defense

Looks like McChrystal has quite a track record of misbehavior. Good thing he's been effective or I doubt he would have lasted this long.

And Buck, the wasn't just about Obama but the entire Whitehouse. Do you think that Joe Biden and Holebrook loathe the military as well?

It's looking like McChrystal may have let his people make these remarks to the Rolling Stone while being completely aware and complicit.

To blame this on Obama is laughable and just shows how un-objective you really are. McChrystal has undermined the very mission he's been assigned and I believe an offense he could be court-martialed if found guilty of.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by scottw

How are the troops in harms way under his leadership supposed to interpret Obama not talking to Mc Chrystal for 4 months regarding Afghanistan, skipping the laying of the wreath on Memorial Day recently, trashing the military during the campaign and before, using a returning coffin for a cheesy photo op, snubbing wounded troops in Germany and on and on and on with this America hating rat...Mc Chrystal shouldn't have done what he did but this is only made possible by a president that deserves no respect because he makes it very clear that he has little respect for others...except for those thugs around the world that he has a habit of bowing to...McChrystal is just another disgruntled Obama voter finally waking up...pretty much all that's left are the pathetic Obama toe suckers..Obama has earned no respect and will continue to get none...it's just taking some longer than others to wake up to the fact that he's a disaster...

BINGO

but shhhhh - you cant say anything!

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by spence

You sound like you admire his actions.

It's sounding like he was completely aware of the comments. How are the troops in harms way under his leadership supposed to interpret this?

-spence

It is his way of sticking up for them. When his Sgts. are emailing him from the field asking him to explain why our elected and appointed officials are dissing the soldiers in the field they want to know the superiors back them.

This general is a very special person. Walked over a hundred disciplinary hours in the quad at West Point. He shows up in the wee hours of the morning and goes on operations with Seals and other black ops units.

He has to accept responsibilty for what his subordinates said in the article, but I don't see personally where the general said anything wrong.

Imagine getting where he is in life only to have to turn around at the apex of his career and have to take orders from this group of miscast politicians who think they actually know how to win a war, but what they do best is dodge supoenas in the Blago trial. The general himself was one of the first people to put pen to paper and write about not only winning a war in another country but then helping rebuild it after the fighting is over.

The general has the respect and admiration of all the troops. At one time or another he has been in charge of the Delta force, the arm rangers, and the seal force as well. He ran and went on some if not most all of the blackest of ops in Iraq. Obama new who he was appointing to run and win the war. This is part of what Obama new and undertsand about the general. Obama could make a stand here against what Holbrooke and the others are saying and doing behind the general's back and send him back to the front lines. Without this general in charge the troops are not going to becoming home anytime soon.

[mosholu]

Here is a link to an article in the today's New York Times regarding the attitude of some of the troop in Afghanistan.

News Analysis - Rules for War Vex the Warriors - NYTimes.com

Here is a link to the Rolling Stone story as well:

The Runaway General | Rolling Stone Politics

[spence]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

It is his way of sticking up for them. When his Sgts. are emailing him from the field asking him to explain why our elected and appointed officials are dissing the soldiers in the field they want to know the superiors back them.

This goes way beyond that. And to knowingly do so in a global magazine that you know will make a big story sounds more and more like a calculated hit every day.

Remember this is the same General who argued passionately for more troops to execute his strategy, and what did Obama do? He gave him 30,000 more fighting men and women.

This general is a very special person. Walked over a hundred disciplinary hours in the quad at West Point. He shows up in the wee hours of the morning and goes on operations with Seals and other black ops units.

When you read up on most of the elite generals they all have pretty amazing stories.

He has to accept responsibilty for what his subordinates said in the article, but I don't see personally where the general said anything wrong.

We're talking about characterizing the Whitehouse as the real enemy. That's not sticking up for your troops, it's called insubordination and almost has treasonous undertones.

Imagine getting where he is in life only to have to turn around at the apex of his career and have to take orders from this group of miscast politicians who think they actually know how to win a war, but what they do best is dodge supoenas in the Blago trial.

Many said the same thing about the Bush Administration.

The general himself was one of the first people to put pen to paper and write about not only winning a war in another country but then helping rebuild it after the fighting is over.

He was following Gen. Petraeus lead, someone who in recent times was very effective at using the media to state his mind and influence policy.

Without this general in charge the troops are not going to becoming home anytime soon.

Obama has let McChrystal run the war his way and the situation doesn't appear to be improving. The real issues here are much bigger than a single person.

-spence

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by Swimmer

At one time or another he has been in charge of the Delta force, the arm rangers, and the seal force as well. He ran and went on some if not most all of the blackest of ops in Iraq. .

hey come on now! Thats no excuse for him to be critical of a junior sentaor that was once a community organizer. He f'in taught at HARVARD for gods sake!

[mosholu]

I think the bigger question all this static gives us a chance to address is that we can not change these people into some type of Western democracy. Given that I do not see any strategy whether it is COIN or anything else that is going to give us anything close to a desired result. We should pull out as quickly as possible and save as many of these brave kids from being killed or maimed as we can.

[buckman]

Originally Posted by mosholu

I think the bigger question all this static gives us a chance to address is that we can not change these people into some type of Western democracy. Given that I do not see any strategy whether it is COIN or anything else that is going to give us anything close to a desired result. We should pull out as quickly as possible and save as many of these brave kids from being killed or maimed as we can.

I agree. Giving the General 30K more troops and then orders not to shoot the enemy unless you are shot at first (and can prove it!!)is a losing strategy. Bring them home NOW,

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by RIJIMMY

hey come on now! Thats no excuse for him to be critical of a junior sentaor that was once a community organizer. He f'in taught at HARVARD for gods sake!

Right:
Much better to take orders from a failed baseball/oil man/Gov of Texas or Gov of Arkansas... the Commander in Chief is the top, agree or disagree he is the boss... Context of their experience is not important here.

If this was reversed Politically, and this was a McCain White House you guys would be clamoring for the generals head.

As one of the talking heads said last night or this morning, in the military, you salute, carry out the order or you resign, period.

[RIJIMMY]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

As one of the talking heads said last night or this morning, in the military, you salute, carry out the order or you resign, period.

So you think that lawyers are better at running a war than generals?
(see Vietnam History)

[buckman]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

Right:
Much better to take orders from a failed baseball/oil man/Gov of Texas or Gov of Arkansas... the Commander in Chief is the top, agree or disagree he is the boss... Context of their experience is not important here.

If this was reversed Politically, and this was a McCain White House you guys would be clamoring for the generals head.

As one of the talking heads said last night or this morning, in the military, you salute, carry out the order or you resign, period.

Never would have happened under Bush.

[mosholu]

Originally Posted by buckman

Never would have happened under Bush.

You meant to say, under Cheney right?

[Swimmer]

Originally Posted by mosholu

You meant to say, under Cheney right?

It is extremely sad this happened under Oprah!

[RIROCKHOUND]

Originally Posted by buckman

Never would have happened under Bush.

No, you just had a sec. of defense removed after a half a dozen retired top tier generals claimed military incompetence.

McCrystal F-ed up.
Obama did the right thing by accepting the resignation.
It probably was a political move to put Petraus in there... we'll see how it works out.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by RIROCKHOUND

No, you just had a sec. of defense removed after a half a dozen retired top tier generals claimed military incompetence.

McCrystal F-ed up.
Obama did the right thing by accepting the resignation.
It probably was a political move to put Petraus in there... we'll see how it works out.

Obama can't win in this one. He put McChrystal in position after passing over Petraeus the first time. He also had some harsh words for Petraeus while he was campaigning for office. Now, to have to sack the guy he handpicked and go back to the guy who originally should have been the choice, it doesn't look so good. But in the end, I think Petraeus is the better choice. As decorated as McChrystal is, he had lost the confidence of a lot of the guys on the ground fighting for him. Now it's just a matter if finding out if this is a winnable war.