Smoke this!

[jmac]

I keep wondering where all this "stripers are doomed" thinking is coming from. Yes, there may be less bass around then there was maybe a few years ago; more people fishing for them is a reason why...(headboats now even chase them...look at Montauk, Block, the Race). Does anybody actually go to the ASMFC site and read the wealth of scientific data on the species or read TITLE 16 - CONSERVATION CHAPTER 71A - ATLANTIC STRIPED BASS CONSERVATION ACT (1983). There are many triggers in the legislation to prevent what happened in the 70's to happen again. Threshholds have been created to prevent overharvesting by ALL SECTORS. During the 70's, none of this was available (I know-I participated in mtgs, forums, etc. to right the fishery). I see as many small fish today, as I did a few years ago (I am on the water just about everyday from April-October)...Narragansett Bay is loaded with mid-size fish when the pogies come full force in June; In May there is small fish all over the Bay feeding on bay anchovies.
As far as other people not seeing that many fish, look to your bait situation. Thats why places like Block Island (sand eels), Stellwagon (herring,whiting , mackeral), Eastern LI Sound (scup) have a lot of fish. Tuna guys are seeing them everywhere outside; a friend of mine was catching large bass while chunking for tuna at the Mudhole (Block I)...
Maybe its the winter-we all need to start fishing.....

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by jmac

I keep wondering where all this "stripers are doomed" thinking is coming from. Yes, there may be less bass around then there was maybe a few years ago; more people fishing for them is a reason why... .

Now jmac, you seem like a reasonable guy so maybe you can help me (particularly since I can never find the actual data I want on the ASMFC site).

Lets just talk recreational catch.

Landings in poundage are roughly steady.
Landings in numbers of fish is down 2/3.
More people are fishing per your estimate (on which I agree)
Natural mortality is up (Mycobacteria/seals etc)
Reproductive success is down.
Inshore population is down (for whatever reason).

SO if recs are only catching 1/3 the fish they used to (as the CCT reporter says....I can't find his source but it fits with what I see), but poundage is steady, those fish have to be bigger....a lot bigger. That means 1 or 2 good year classes are getting hammered and will keep getting hammered if nothing changes.

SO, as those fish get wiped out and don't get a chance to create some more good year classes my question to you is......."What size fish do you expect to be catching 10 years from now and how many will there be?" Please remember, it takes a long time to make a 40lber and it takes ALOT of fish to get one if you kill 1/3 of the year class every year along the way.

If you can show me the answer to that question on the ASMFC site, I would be much comforted. Thanks.

[PNG]

Originally Posted by numbskull

Now jmac, you seem like a reasonable guy so maybe you can help me (particularly since I can never find the actual data I want on the ASMFC site).

Lets just talk recreational catch.

Landings in poundage are roughly steady.
Landings in numbers of fish is down 2/3.
More people are fishing per your estimate (on which I agree)
Natural mortality is up (Mycobacteria/seals etc)
Reproductive success is down.
Inshore population is down (for whatever reason).

SO if recs are only catching 1/3 the fish they used to (as the CCT reporter says....I can't find his source but it fits with what I see), but poundage is steady, those fish have to be bigger....a lot bigger. That means 1 or 2 good year classes are getting hammered and will keep getting hammered if nothing changes.

SO, as those fish get wiped out and don't get a chance to create some more good year classes my question to you is......."What size fish do you expect to be catching 10 years from now and how many will there be?" Please remember, it takes a long time to make a 40lber and it takes ALOT of fish to get one if you kill 1/3 of the year class every year along the way.

If you can show me the answer to that question on the ASMFC site, I would be much comforted. Thanks.

Very good. Well put. I realize you are speaking to rec catches. I would like to add I believe that SB by catch by trawlers is completely over looked on purpose by the ASMFC and you may not agree with this but there has been a a greater ancedotal catch of SB in cod country. Simply put the big bass are going offshore. I saw a video of a haulback on a legal foreign trawler here... bass by catch was ugly

I think I am in agreement with you that the ASFMC is que$tionable

[numbskull]

From the ASMFC roundtable discussion on striped bass management from 1999. Some comments from Rip Cunningham......that still ring very true and are relevant to this discussion .

"4-5.From the recreational point-of-view there is distrust. ............... Public input is not taken into
account. There seems to be elitism among managers who feel they know the answers of how
to deal with the stock and they don’t need public input. When recreational fishermen don’t
agree with decisions they think they just need to call ASMFC and ask for change. In reality,
recreational fishermen can make their greatest impact at the state level. They don’t realize
that it is a coastwide effort and all states work to establish a compromise, so not all decisions
are based strictly on science. Allocation is not just science. .......
.........ASMFC needs to establish methods to better isolate science from management, and it may
also be better to have others, besides the State directors, represent States interests on the
Management Boards. "