Is this the Place?

[eskimo]

Originally Posted by the greek

I made the plug as wide as the lip at the widest point which is where the rear taper starts. I like the one I did from pine the best. That is the yellow one. I made the others from cypress and they weigh exactly the same as the pine one. Swim is different. I know I should have expected it but it surprised me how different. I can get the pine one to swim subsurface and is pretty stable but the cypress ones won't leave the top. They are also pretty unstable and will roll out if cranked hard but leave a big wake with alot of tail wag. These are my first attempts at a forty and at least I have somewhere to go from here. I wish I had access to some of the older plugs like you guys seem to have. Trying to find them let alone people to bounce ideas off here is difficult at best here.

I've ran into that with some musso's.

I wanted to try both pine and basswood just for kick's and although the weight came up the same the basswood version seem to be a little more sluggish (or so I thought), which might not be a bad thing.

Included a basswood proto on the next round and wasn't sure if it was me or not but I thought it swam a little sluggish again, compared to the pine. Might be the sealer absorption although the weight is the same OR its just how that wood reacts.

or it's just me.

[eskimo]

From this weekend.

Figured I would try out a couple different kinds of spooks. offset vs. non-offset, narrower vs fatter head etc.

I fished some traditional ones I made last year when I would stay out until first light and the water was flat. walked nicely just couldn't cast em.

Also, two pencils and two polaris's I gave away for Christmas. I was going for squid but I think I end up with linoleum flooring.

[Jigman]

Originally Posted by eskimo

... walked nicely just couldn't cast em....

Spooks can be decent casters, but will not cast as well as a pencil or a regular popper. You can increase their casting distance some by making them more aerodynamic. If you try increasing the lead you'll make them harder to walk. If you are after a topwater, daytime plug that will cast real well, stick with a pencil or polaris popper.

Jigman

[BigFish]

I have to disagree with Jigman based on my personal experience. A spook I make casts equally as well as my pencil and absolutely slays fish equally, if not better, than my pencils. Aerodynamic is the key as Jigman said. Jigman, I have never fished the famous JigSmith but many of my friends have.....I know that sucker is a fish slayer but I would imagine it must cast very well??

[eskimo]

Originally Posted by eskimo

walked nicely just couldn't cast em.

Originally Posted by Jigman

Spooks can be decent casters...

Hence messing with a few different shapes.

Not looking for the distance of a pencil. Just seeing what I can get out of them with a little compromising. I also haven't fished one of your spooks or your collaboration spooks but have been inspired by just the design.

[Jigman]

Larry,

That spook casts well, just not as well as a pencil. If I am going for distance, I'm thinking pencil.

Jigman

[Tagger]

I wish I had a spook that cast like a pencil .. When the fish are out past the middle of the canal its pencil time or a good casting popper . I think the action on a spook is more enticing though..

[Slipknot]

I find it difficult to work a spook far,far out so a long cast usually isn't needed myself. I like pencils for distance also, or even polaris.

I agree tagger, the action of a spook is probably more enticing to a bass.

[ProfessorM]

Originally Posted by eskimo

From this weekend.

Figured I would try out a couple different kinds of spooks. offset vs. non-offset, narrower vs fatter head etc.

I fished some traditional ones I made last year when I would stay out until first light and the water was flat. walked nicely just couldn't cast em.

Also, two pencils and two polaris's I gave away for Christmas. I was going for squid but I think I end up with linoleum flooring.

All look great . Nicely done.

Speaking of spooks here is what I have settled on from a few years of fiddling around. For me first was the Youzui Hydro pencil,which to me is a spook , but I luv that plug and used it a lot so then I tried to make something similar thus the white thing. Worked good but kept tinkering. Then I was lucky enough to get one of Andrews plugs and really liked that, low line tie. So I tried to combine the jigman and the youzuri together. I sanded off the paint on the hydro pencil to find the weight basically in the middle of the plug. It also was pretty much where jigman put his belly weight so I settled on that location and drilled and weighted the plug perpendicular to the hooks and bottom of the plug. You can see weight hole in pic. I put lead flush from one side to other. A lot of work but I like the results. I did real well on the plug last year so that is what it will be. I much prefer it out of red cedar too. It cast's great but I am fishing it out of a boat, which to me is the optimum way to fish any spook. Standing with rod tip on the water to me gets the best action..
I also can't say enough good things about the howdy as it is my best catcher every spring, also made of red cedar. Fish can't resist that plug in spring Flap used to laugh at me out in our tin boats on the flats because I would verbally defy the fish to hit that plug. They just could not resit. I t was like crack for fish.

[eskimo]

Those are awesome P.

noticed the weight hole when you first posted and it got me thinking Is the older version with out the lower line tie weighted side to side as well? I tried weighing a needle from side to side last year but up forward behind the eyes.

Lots of times while on the rocks I will still fish spooks with my rod tip down making angled sweeps. A lot less violent (which I like) then fishing them as a pencil but from a boat is ideal.

[ProfessorM]

yes the white one is side to side too. I like to fish them side to side very slowly with a little pause as they slow to a stop before they head back the other way, when the fish seem a little fussy. They just can not lay off the plug at that speed, same technique with the howdy too. All in the wrist and forearm. More of a quick snap than a sweep for me. If you don't feel like you are getting tennis elbow then you aren't doing it right.

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

All look great . Nicely done.

Speaking of spooks here is what I have settled on from a few years of fiddling around. For me first was the Youzui Hydro pencil,which to me is a spook ,



Standing with rod tip on the water to me gets the best action..

Thanks Paul ,, I've never fished that Youzui,, another plug I'll have to buy ..

Thanks again .. Numby yells at me for fishing a spook like that ,, I'll snap the rod up once in a while but prefer to keep the nose down in the water .. Either popping the rod down or to the side ..

[Backbeach Jake]

Thanks a million, Paul. I'd never have thought of that, but once shown ,makes perfect sense. Yaw inducing weighting. Brilliant!

[ProfessorM]

Not that brilliant Fred. I stole, copied idea. I just sanded the paint of the plastic Youzuri, saw where the weight was and gave it a try in that location. Sandpaper, now that is brilliant.

[Jigman]

I also prefer to work a spook with the rod tip down and to the side. If the plug is far out, there is current, or there are decent waves, then you'll usually have to work the spook with the rod tip up. I like to mix it up some, work it slow, fast for a short bit, dead stop, move again. Its all good Also agree that its hard to work a spook as well when it is far out. On most days, they are more enticing to stripers than a pencil. Have had several cases where bluefish were blitzing and trashing pencils, put on a spook and work it slow at the edge of the school and start pulling a few stripers out too.

Jigman

[WoodyCT]

Anyone find an optimal action on them things?

I made this great big one outta pine with a little tail weight and no belly lead, and I love it's big lazy zig zags, and even occasional dives and jumps, but dang if I haven't raised a single fish on it.

I'm hoping it's just cuz I haven't put it in front of something big enough to eat it...

Perhaps long coasting zig zags aren't what it takes...

[numbskull]

Good morning. Gets later and later each week.

Woody, in my experience decent bass like big lazy slow spooks more than the splashy faster kind. Hard to make yourself work them slow, however, particularly when things are slow and you are searching (same issue arises with swimmers).

Got a big thrill out of F Pintauro's articles about Musso. 2 weeks ago Back Beach was telling me how the "Musso" eely was such a great lure for him at the Race years back. I told him the only eelys I knew of were the BM and Pichney (a style plug I fished years ago a bit but left me underwhelmed). Also they are forward weighted and don't look like fast water plugs to me, so I was surprised (and a little skeptical) they were a hot item at the Race. Accordingly my eyes popped out when lo and behold there is a picture of one in Frank's article. That and a Musso bottle darter, and some lipless swimmers.
Certainly got the juices flowing. Here are some prototypes (next to a copy of a musso pine sr).

[Backbeach Jake]

Just sitting in the back of the classroom, George. My usual seat.
I've been working on some long and skinnys myself, shooting for a sandeel.
Figured how to hydro without water or other liquid yesterday. Now I don't have to redry my spun wood. The plug orients just about as forcefully as in water.
I'll be drilling and slotting this afternoon

[numbskull]

No comments on the patched misdrills, by the way. The darter deflected when I through drilled the weight, the lipless swimmer I forgot was off center drilled.

Epoxy and 1/8" dowel cures many ills.


The other lesson for the week is that soft maple is a SPONGE. Had a darter go from 2.1 to 2.9 oz (2.8 after drying) after 6 hours soak, and a wad go from 2.0-2.8, though it dried down to 2.4. Sort of wrecks havoc with any attempt to weight it before you seal it.

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

Figured how to hydro without water or other liquid yesterday. Now I don't have to redry my spun wood. The plug orients just about as forcefully as in water.

Flat smooth table, Fred? I'm all ears.

[Backbeach Jake]

I thought that was where the weight was.. maybe I should move up a few seats...

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by Backbeach Jake

I thought that was where the weight was.. maybe I should move up a few seats...

Actually, I think most plugs are not exactly round, particularly after you sand them. The softer earlywood (I think that is what it is called) machines faster than the harder latewood (darker grain lines). That is probably a factor, too.

[Backbeach Jake]

The base of my lathe is two parallel tubes. I laid a spun blank on in and it rolled, stopped rolled back a little and stopped.
I had to have done that a thousand times in the past but never took notice. The wood and the tubes only touch at a point, barely at all, and the wood rolls very easily. When it stops mark the top.
If the lathe base isn't built like that I'm sure that mocking one up and leveling it would be a snap.

[pbadad]

Good morning. I see we're all having fun. Been busy sealing the remainder of the plug battallion. I started to dip primer; zinseer gold label , cut 2-1. so far so good. 2 coats. No smell , overspray and spray gun cleaning. Does anybody dip primer? Here's my low buck dripping system.

[BigFish]

Morning fellow addicts and Happy New Year! George what type of sealer do you use? Why soak for so long?

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by ProfessorM

I sanded off the paint on the hydro pencil to find the weight basically in the middle of the plug. It also was pretty much where jigman put his belly weight so I settled on that location and drilled and weighted the plug perpendicular to the hooks and bottom of the plug. You can see weight hole in pic. I put lead flush from one side to other.

Paul .. That horizontal hole you drilled side to side in your spook,, Is that below the center of the plug .. Thanks .. can't tell from pic .. looks like thru wire is towards top of hole ..

George ,, I really like the predator head/bottle plug .. I think your on to something .. I'm gonna copy .. brillant .

[Tagger]

Originally Posted by pbadad

Does anybody dip primer? Here's my low buck dripping system.

I brush /hypodermic cpes thru oven heated plugs (20 min 200 degree's) .. sucs in like a basatagde .. Stuff is so expensive I don't want to mix dipping batches . I'm looking for something to dip .. I thought zinnser aerosol was to chalky .. yours look better .. Every year ya try something new it takes a whole fishing season to see how it holds up .. very slow process unless someone succesful is willing to share information ,., not

[Diggin Jiggin]

Well I finally got some stuff started, using soft maple.

I've been messing with the Donny shape that George posted dimensions of for me a few weeks ago. In addition to the surface swimmer it was intended as, I also wanted to experiment with it to see if I could get a deep swimmer with that same basic body shape.

I've also been adding a small tail weight to them and I like having only 1 belly hook so that throws the weighting off a bit so I've done a lot of test swimming this week.

For the lipless diver I extended the nose of the plug 1" and then copied the basic nike head shape. I ended up having to move the line tie higher, and making the head a little larger than the lipped swimmer to increase the size of the diving plane. I also ended up moving the weight forward of the belly hook to get it to dig in. It drops down 2-3 feet on a slow retrieve and will go deeper in current. It swims with a pretty wide wobble, turns left/right about twice as often as a darter.
Its pretty much what I wanted, we'll just have to see if the fish like it next spring.

I also had tried some 2 belly hook versions of the diver, but once I got the single belly hooked ones worked out I decided to turn the 2 belly hooked ones into jointeds. The first one I tried swam great but was just barely subsurface maybe 2-3". I turned a slightly thinner one yesterday that I'm hoping will go deeper.

I also turned some darters but haven't gotten to the point where I screw them up yet.

[BigFish]

I spray Zinseer Gold Cover Stain from a rattle can......it needs a good amount of sanding but it works great! I would be afraid to dip it....to heavy!

[numbskull]

I use Valoil/MS, Larry. Do you build with soft maple? AYC, pine barely absorb any sealer, and I only seal for an hour or two. Soft maple (and birch) are different, they suck the stuff up. They suck water up, too. And they split. The more sealer you get in them, the less room for water, the less water, the less expansion and contraction, the less movement, the less splitting (and less waterlogging).

I think sealing a plug is not about a thin coating on the outside (very little water gets absorbed perpendicular to the wood fibers). It is about building a barrier in the exposed end grain. Since maple transports water (or sealer) very quickly, my theory is that a quick dunk gets drawn in and doesn't seal much.