Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

Saltheart · 12-09-2009, 12:42 PM

What I think would help is to make it mandatory to show your sales slip from the year before in order to get a license again the next year. I bet a big percent of the licenses in MA go to people who just pay the fee so they can skirt the bag limits. They take all the fish a com license allows but sell zero. This is just paying a fee to get around the bag limit laws. People do it for taug and fluke as well as stripers. It should be a regulation something like if you had a license last year , you cannot get a renewal ubnless you can prove you sold more than x amount of fish the year before.

There are two issues here. One , they get to skirt the bag limits for a price. Two , the fish they take are not counted in the quota because nobody knows they are taking them.

I think fixing that problem and forcing bicatch to be sold and counted would really go a long way to reducing the take pumping health into the fishery.

MAKAI · 12-09-2009, 12:56 PM

A quick search of mass.
2008 numbers
3599 permits sold
1207 reported landing even one fish
102 reported landing at least 3000 pounds

sokinwet · 12-09-2009, 01:30 PM

Although I don't doubt that "some" will get the permit just to take more fish, I question why someone would do that (other than having a whole flock of mouths to feed). If you're just fishing to fill the freezer, you're limiting your catch to 34"+ fish....keep one under 34" and you're now fishing as a rec. I think the more likely thing is that many of the "0" reports come from people who have a licence because they fish in someone elses boat who does not have a boat permit. No permit...no ride.

Back Beach · 12-09-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokinwet

I think the more likely thing is that many of the "0" reports come from people who have a licence because they fish in someone elses boat who does not have a boat permit. No permit...no ride.

Not sure it still works that way. I think you get a vessel permit now and it covers everyone on board and limits the catch to 30 per boat.
In previous years you needed everyone on the vessel to have a license, but I believe each license holder could take a full limit of fish.

Lots of zeros come from guys like me who get the license "just in case" or keep renewing the license so as to not have it permanently revoked. I've heard the argument that folks get the license just to be able to keep more fish to eat, but this has to be very minimal.

TheSpecialist · 12-09-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAKAI

A quick search of mass.
2008 numbers
3599 permits sold
1207 reported landing even one fish
102 reported landing at least 3000 pounds

Those are interesting numbers.

Back Beach · 12-09-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Those are interesting numbers.

Those statistics helped spawn the "Recrimercial" moniker, I'm sure.

MAKAI · 12-09-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back Beach

Those statistics helped spawn the "Recrimercial" moniker, I'm sure.

First time I saw it.
T. W is interesting, thanks.

JohnR · 12-09-2009, 04:06 PM

Kind of sad that we are more or less in the same argument and the same fisheries mess we were in ten years ago.

Hmmm, progress

Saltheart · 12-09-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAKAI

A quick search of mass.
2008 numbers
3599 permits sold
1207 reported landing even one fish
102 reported landing at least 3000 pounds

That is just about in agreement with the people I know who have commercial licenses. I would say it 2 to 1 the people who just keep everything vs the people who actually sell fish with their license. From what I hear its the Taug and Fluke that make it worth while but they do the same with stripers if the occasion rises.

maddmatt · 12-11-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltheart

What I think would help is to make it mandatory to show your sales slip from the year before in order to get a license again the next year. I bet a big percent of the licenses in MA go to people who just pay the fee so they can skirt the bag limits. They take all the fish a com license allows but sell zero. This is just paying a fee to get around the bag limit laws. People do it for taug and fluke as well as stripers. It should be a regulation something like if you had a license last year , you cannot get a renewal ubnless you can prove you sold more than x amount of fish the year before.

also good

sokinwet · 12-11-2009, 04:19 PM

Hey Sandman do you ever read anyones posts and attempt to understand what the other guy's opinion is, like most of the other posters in this debate, or do you just like to hear yourself repeat your same old tired mantra. Since I did read your post let me respond to your latest diatribe:
1st - a simple look at the economics of your 3 a day limit proposal would convince most of the obvious flaw in that logic. More costs, more fuel, more man hrs....same quota.

2nd - Well my "math challenged" friend do you really think the entire commercial fleet consists of the 60 boats fishing in "your" spot. Now let's see..a million pounds/20 lb. avg. = 50,000 fish/60 boats=833 fish ea. boat/30 = 27.7 for each boat for virtually every day of the season....roughly 16,000lb. a boat. A quick look at the permit/catch data previously posted shows this is BS. If I'm wrong be assured there will be 61 boats there nxt. year.

3rd - We're also killing all the bunker....never mind..this is just to far from reality to even comprehend.

4th - So instead of a regulated R&R fishery you would rather see the draggers sell their bycatch...of course then the bycatch just might turn into the target species. We wouldn't want to address the bycatch issue on it's own...just give these "few" guys the quota to catch....while they're dragging in the sacred EEZ and shut out the other couple of thousand guys who just may also rely on that income.

5 - Juicy, bogus tax write offs? I guess you never filled out a small business return...what was that about some type of log books you sell?

6. Charter fish = commercial catch. So I guess that means...Sandman can't catch a fish in his new boat (only because the new rig isn't ready for sea of course) so he charters w/CowHunter to catch his 2 and those are now commercial fish? Tell that to the restaurant who wants to sell that fish, the tourists who want to eat it or the guy who works in the fish market.

7. Most comm this.... most comm. that...Well Karnac...I would say that mostly you don't have a clue about most anything we're about.

dannyplug1 · 12-11-2009, 05:21 PM

I can understand commercials if fishing is the main source of income for the family. If you fish commercially to reduce the costs of boating or just do it to make money its not right. All I know that I fish like a bandit for a keeper and then let it go. You commercials if you had your way would destroy a beatuful wild creature to line your pockets. And dont give me the argument that you are entitled to your fair share as you have in the past. When our ancesors came to this country they fournd it to be a virgin wilderness with wild game for all. You cant just go into a national park and take as many as you want. We have reached a point where commercial fishing and hunting should not be legal. Market hunting for ducks has been banned for a great many years. It is not legal to sell trout and other game fish in any state that I know of. Bottom line if people want to eat striped bass they should be raised through aqua-culture not through the destruction of a wild symbol of our nation that brings pleasure to millions of Americans rather than making a bunch of people with other jobs rich. Yes I want you guys put of of bussiness before you destroy the resource.

sokinwet · 12-11-2009, 06:00 PM

"or just do it to make money its not right"

HUH??

Personally I fish commercially so I can argue with guys who sound like they took a wrong turn @ the PETA web page.

inTHERAPY · 12-11-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyplug1

I can understand commercials if fishing is the main source of income for the family. If you fish commercially to reduce the costs of boating or just do it to make money its not right. All I know that I fish like a bandit for a keeper and then let it go. You commercials if you had your way would destroy a beatuful wild creature to line your pockets. And dont give me the argument that you are entitled to your fair share as you have in the past. When our ancesors came to this country they fournd it to be a virgin wilderness with wild game for all. You cant just go into a national park and take as many as you want. We have reached a point where commercial fishing and hunting should not be legal. Market hunting for ducks has been banned for a great many years. It is not legal to sell trout and other game fish in any state that I know of. Bottom line if people want to eat striped bass they should be raised through aqua-culture not through the destruction of a wild symbol of our nation that brings pleasure to millions of Americans rather than making a bunch of people with other jobs rich. Yes I want you guys put of of bussiness before you destroy the resource.

So let me get this straight. (please insert any name for "I" ) I bust my hump all work week long to make my living for myself, family, community, etc. I have the good fortune to own a boat, maybe, and have the skill to catch a legally marketable fish. So, in the course of a season I can put, say 5K, 10K, 15K worth of fish on the market. Because I bust my hump for 50k at "work" I should not be "able" to get a license and sell fish. Who are you kiddin?

Since when did a bass become some almost holy symbol? It's a fish.

likwid · 12-12-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokinwet

5 - Juicy, bogus tax write offs? I guess you never filled out a small business return...what was that about some type of log books you sell?

Howabout all the guys selling to the back of restaurants right off the boat? Or crossing state lines with fish?

I'm sure plenty of people on here know names.

sokinwet · 12-12-2009, 09:18 AM

Well if you ever ate bass on the South Shore @ Bobby Hackett's or the old Red Coach grills in the 60's & 70's there's a good chance it was delivered out of the back of an old Ford station wagon, but today you would have to be a fool to risk boat, truck, fines, etc. to sell to other than a legit. buyer or to sell fish without a permit....and my wife doesn't let me cross state lines so that's not an issue.
Frankly if you're so concerned about the resource and "know names" and aren't calling someone out then you shouldn't be pointing fingers. And if you ever see me breaking the "laws" well my name is *******...my number and the EPO's are in the book. And if I meet you on the water remind me that you're the guy that insinuated that I'm a crook.

likwid · 12-14-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokinwet

but today you would have to be a fool to risk boat, truck, fines, etc. to sell to other than a legit. buyer or to sell fish without a permit....

Nobody accused anybody here. Calm down.

And there must be a lot of fools around....

bart · 12-16-2009, 02:21 PM

don't be hatin' on franklin

Doublerunner · 12-12-2009, 09:24 AM

I recently spoke to a friend of mine about this issue. This is a life long fisherman who used to be in the commercial business. There is no doubt in my mind that if he was still a commercial fisherman that he would have been able to retire from what he could have made but he considers some things more important than the almighty $$$.

Here are his thoughts in his own words;

The typical tactic of defending all comm's as being honest and above board is still being beaten to death by an individual that either never fishes or talks to another comm, or is completely ignorant to the facts.
The number of fish sold without reporting, AKA black market, in my opinion and estimation, is fully equal to the reported catch.
***** is towing the line, defending his "right" to kill as many fish as he can without any sense of responsibilty for his actions. Brings me back to the quote "People will eat Squid".
Disregarding the clause submitted in the bill where Mass reserves to comm quota as conservation stock is somehow missed in the argument. Using Jerseys mistake of allowing recs to keep an extra fish, is also their excuse to fight this as just another way to allow the high end $'s the recs spend compared to comm's as a money grab by the government.
There are way too many recs out there that have no clue as to what is happening right now. I recently talked with a boat owner about the status of Stripers, and he showed exactly what I've been saying for quite some time. He only started fishing for Bass 8 to 10 years ago. He justifies stuffing the seat cushions with fish to offset the cost of fuel. If he doesn't come in with at least 8 fish, the number he designated, then it wasn't worth leaving the ramp. I suspect he also has outlets to sell his fish as well. There are way too many fishermen out there that bought boats during the real estate bubble on false income, and fished stocks on the rebound. Everything looked rosey, and life was good. 24 foot boats fully outfitted with electronics, and networks with cell phones, allowed less than average knowledge possesing fishermen to achieve great success hammering Bass at the Block and Montauk. To those that never fished the crash years, the great majority of them out there, they have no understanding that what they were seeing was as false as the Freddy Mac/ Fanny Mae mortgage programs that people were using to buy houses they couldn't afford with money they didn't have.
It is amazing to me that Stripers Forever is slammed by people who do understand the repurcussions of the current status quo. I would bet that ******embellishes his number of years on the water, as he would understand that the fish are not showing up in the places or numbers we used to get them at during the pre-crash years.
Tunnel vision reigns supreme with him and his brethren, all they see are the numbers in the bank account. Bass are nothing but money and as I have said in the past, that is all that matters to him and his type.
If I had not lived the crash or maintained the Bass are dollars attitude, I could easily have been making 10 grand or more a year in un-reported sales. There were times when I had the boats in the water that temptation was real, and the number of times I was approached would astound you. My reputation, pre internet, was well known on the Island, the armada would follow me and watch through bino's to see what I was doing. Playing with them would have me laughing for days as people started pissing on their tubes, copying what they thought I was doing to catch fish.
Continue the fight guy's, they care not about us or our children, or grand children. It's all about the numbers in the bank.

Doublerunner · 12-12-2009, 09:28 AM

Convinces me more than ever it needs to be given permanent game fish status

Jenn · 12-12-2009, 09:44 AM

This thread should be aboutStriped Bass regulation. Not slinging mud at each other and calling each other out. Fact is we are ALL here because we fish and at some point we have all killed at least some fish. So lets keep it civilized please. If you want to call someone out or accuse them of breaking the law do it in private. It doesnt belong here.