Mass. weighs tougher protections for striped bass - Striper Talk Striped Bass Fishing, Surfcasting, Boating

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 08:54 AM

BackBeach out of staters fish commercially for many other species in multiple states. Thats like telling you that you can only fish recreationally and kill your catch in Mass...

Brian L · 12-06-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

BackBeach out of staters fish commercially for many other species in multiple states. Thats like telling you that you can only fish recreationally and kill your catch in Mass...

You beat me to it... Agree 100%

With your rules, no more RI fishing for you, BB. You'll have to stay in Mass for now on. :^)

Although, I'm guessing that you're referring to people who catch fish in RI waters and sell them in Mass.

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:06 AM

Backbeach, not everyone from out of state is poaching or ice fishing, some of the worst offenders are in your backyard!

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:10 AM

Brian, No Backbeach is refering to getting rid of all the out of staters with commercial permits period. They dont want out of staters coming up and catching THEIR fish. Been trying to get it done for years.

ProfessorM · 12-06-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Brian, No Backbeach is refering to getting rid of all the out of staters with commercial permits period. They dont want out of staters coming up and catching THEIR fish. Been trying to get it done for years.

What Mike said sounds good to me

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:12 AM

JohnnyD, plain and simple, there are those that play by the rules and those that dont like in everything else...

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:23 AM

Makai, if youre gonna make it a gamefish then why be allowed to kill anyfish??? Take away the comm catch but let recs kill theres.

The Decline in the numbers of bass is not to to the 20 some odd days of the Mass Commercial season. That entire biomass is taking a pounding from December through June. Ill say it agian, Many of you guys havent got a clue what goes on down south of you, You just complain when the fish dont show up in new England and blame it on 20 days of commercial season. There is no comparison whatsoever!

Doublerunner · 12-06-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Makai, if youre gonna make it a gamefish then why be allowed to kill anyfish??? Take away the comm catch but let recs kill theres.

The Decline in the numbers of bass is not to to the 20 some odd days of the Mass Commercial season. That entire biomass is taking a pounding from December through June. Ill say it agian, Many of you guys havent got a clue what goes on down south of you, You just complain when the fish dont show up in new England and blame it on 20 days of commercial season. There is no comparison whatsoever!

Would it be better if you had 60 days of commercial fishing with the same poundage limits? Let's not focus on the amount of days and instead focus on the amount and size of each catch

I agree that what happens down south needs to be rectified ( and I believe will be as more states come in line ) but don't use what happens elsewhere as an excuse to do it everywhere

As a rec if I catch and keep 1 - 6 fish a week I am not killing off generations of fish for years to come as there are still huge amounts of fish in that pack to still re-generate. As a commercial if you are sitting on top of a large school of fish and take them all out you are also wiping away generations of future fish from that pack. Perhaps then extending the commercial season to a larger amount of days....say 60 or so...but reduce the amount that can be taken daily, weekly, and monthly would go a long way towards not wiping out complete generations of fish

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 10:05 AM

In mass the commercial season is spread out to 20 some odd commercial days over say 5-6 weeks. There are different bodies of fish that show up in different areas dependent on the bait. Fish move, A big body of fish may show up and stay only for a tide, day, week, or until a weather change. Fewer fish have shown up the last 2-3 years. I personally like it harder the better. In any case there is a problem with fewer fish. I wont be one to say that the fish in buzzards bay are wiped out, they just dont show there the last 2 years or so in the numbers they have. Quicks hole hasnt had the fish. Weather, bait deffinatly are factors. The bait showed up in April through May frm NJ through Mass. In June we had unprecedented rain, maybe the bait moved out due to salinity, in either case they didnt come back, and niether did the fish. You cant blame the Mass Commercials for that. There is a big difference recreationally / charters pounding an entire biomass that is staged in its wintering grounds or transitory moving up the coast where they are pounded day to day in huge numbers. Recs in VA probably kill more fish in a week than the entire mass comercial season. Just pound the school day in and day out! Look at the commercial methods for harvesting striped bass down in Md, NC, VA... No pinhookers there! break out the nets boys!
I do believe there is a change in pattern also, alot of fish are staying offshore with the bait, well over 3 miles. Theres few inshore baitfish anymore in NE. Grubbing on crabs, lobsters, and reef fish... They are with the miles of sand eals and herring. Cant blame for no fish on the back beaches to mass commercial either. Some people just cant adapt when it gets harder and you have to change, they dont understand the fish but they want to manage the fishery....Might as well let Obama regulate striped bass...

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 10:13 AM

Doublerunner, there is a whole different mentality in the south.... When Chesapeake Bay is open in November and December, you cant get a room, house on the northside. If you dont get to the ramp early you are out of luck and The Ramp in Kiptopeke holds more cars than all the southshore ramps in mass combined! Every Charterboat from NC and VA is pounding the bay and rec guys from several states. As soon as they shut the bay down Jan 1 and make it catch and release it is a barren wasteland. Nobody is going down there for catch and release!!! Hotels are empty, no rentals, no charters, tackleshops are closed, all restaurants stores in the area are empty. Need to go look for yourselves.... Just a few of my own observations and my own experience. Not what somebody tells my or what I may have heard....

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 10:21 AM

Brian, That is just to keep it for guys that are Full time commercial. Gotta do what you can to adapt. I do have a full time job myself before Charters and commercial and I still do about 150 days a year on the water. I still do consider my charters and commercial as full time work. If that was all I did I cant see how I could survive paying all expenses, and put away money for healthcare, pension, kids college and so on.... Making it harder and harder to make a living off the water. Its become a rich mans game, thats all it will be if it were a catch and release gamefish only....

Doublerunner · 12-06-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Doublerunner, there is a whole different mentality in the south.... When Chesapeake Bay is open in November and December, you cant get a room, house on the northside. If you dont get to the ramp early you are out of luck and The Ramp in Kiptopeke holds more cars than all the southshore ramps in mass combined! Every Charterboat from NC and VA is pounding the bay and rec guys from several states. As soon as they shut the bay down Jan 1 and make it catch and release it is a barren wasteland. Nobody is going down there for catch and release!!! Hotels are empty, no rentals, no charters, tackleshops are closed, all restaurants stores in the area are empty. Need to go look for yourselves.... Just a few of my own observations and my own experience. Not what somebody tells my or what I may have heard....

That will have to be changed. What happens in one area can and does affect the whole striper coast. As I've said we all have to do our part

How close to shore can comm's fish?

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 09:03 AM

Doublerunner, well to bad for you if you take offense. My post was directed at people to whom it applies. People trying to change rules to better benifit them, have nothing better than trying to ruin the lives of hard working people....

Doublerunner · 12-06-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Doublerunner, well to bad for you if you take offense. My post was directed at people to whom it applies. People trying to change rules to better benifit them, have nothing better than trying to ruin the lives of hard working people....

Everyone wants the rules to benefit them and you're no different.

I personally support that rec's should only be allowed one fish per outing and I'd dare say only 1 fish per week.

I also think charter boats should be limited to what can be kept on each outing no matter how many passengers they have.

I will also admit to not knowing enough of how commercial fishing works so I will not lump everyone together but I do know human nature. And whether you are commercial or rec or charter there are some people that are responsible and follow guidelines and instincts that will allow for the fishery to survive for generations. And then there are those that only care about themselves for the here and now and don't care what damage they do. And we're not even talking about businesses that kill fish with their pollution and toxins here either.

As I stated earlier I do not want to see any one's livelihood taken away. I do feel if there is an effort on all fronts then it may work. In the short term there may be a moratorium, who knows. Quantity limits and slot limits seem the best way to start. But enforcement on all fronts with stiff penalties that include large fines, jail time, and loss of equipment with well publicized media reports would also go a long way in detracting those that break the law. And the only way to enforce is to have more people out there which would mean higher costs for everyone to fish. When it comes down to it the only people that can have a true effect on improving the stock is those that are fishing for it and if we can't work together and improve it ourselves ( which has already been proven over and over ) then the states and feds will impose stricter regs and higher costs on all of us.

And again I'll say an even bigger problem is the menhaden draggers

MikeToole · 12-06-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Doublerunner, well to bad for you if you take offense. My post was directed at people to whom it applies. People trying to change rules to better benifit them, have nothing better than trying to ruin the lives of hard working people....

Hard working people have destroyed or severly damaged many of our fisheries.

I'm not against commercial fishing. I'm for maximizing the value of the resource for the public good. I'm originally from NJ and I fish there a couple of times a year and I agree with your other post about the number of fish being killed. There are far more chart and private boats fishing for stripers now then there were in the late 60s. Now even the party boats target them. From what I've seen, catch and release of legal fish is not near as common down there as it is here. We're killing to many fish and we need to reduce the numbers. Problem is, it's hard to convince recreational fisherman to reduce their kill when others are allowed to kill for profit. right or wrong it is the arguement I get when I bring up reducing the kill numbers.

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 04:03 PM

Doublerunner, I commercially fish in Mass and charter up the coast. You automatically assume that NJ is all I know....I hear people everywhere blaming the commercial fishery in Mass as causing all the damage to the striped bass fishery when the fishing gets tough. There have been articles down here, written and published by those that dont have a clue. Everybody wants somebody to blame. They have no idea as to what goes on up and down the coast, they just expect to go out and catch all the striped bass they want anytime they want... Times are changing.
Numbskull, sacrifices have to be made both commercially and recrerationally to benifit the striped bass fishery. You can complain and whine all you want about bait. Truth of the matter is there are literally miles of bunker here of the NJ coast, they come on the beach from time to time, but doesnt mean the bass always do, in fact they seldom due. And for those that put their time in and understand the fishery, know when they do and capitalize on it. You cant read that in books. For many miles, that bait is unmolested, didnt mean squat for the inshore fishery. Down in VA and NC the bass are all along with the pogies, Miles and miles of them. Water temp dictates as to them coming in, truth is, they aint coming on the beach where the surf temp is 42-43 degrees. Your going to have to accept the fact that surf fishing isnt what it used to be and probably wont be for time to come. As far as the boat fishing is, it isnt easy by any means, you have to be inovative and adaptive to be consistant. U cant blame the state off striped bass on indescrimit dragging, long lining, gillnetting... The Striped Bass commercial fishery has been regulated much more stringently than the Rec Catches have. There has not been an ounce of accountability on the rec side....

Doublerunner · 12-06-2009, 04:14 PM

CH I never said NJ is all you know. That is just an assumption on your part

It's like listening to a broken record. Read back on some of my posts. I have repeatedly said we all need to work together and I am all for restrictions on the rec side as well

Reducing kill numbers needs a multi faceted approach which also includes reducing the over killing of menhaden

CowHunter · 12-06-2009, 04:31 PM

I really havent got anything else to say.... Im going down to VA this week to fish a tourney, Ill see plenty of dead 30-40 lb breeders. Then Ill be down in January for a few days to fish the midatlantic rockfish tourney, I think that tourney is good for 1000's , (30k+ easy in its hay day), of pounds of dead breeding stock bass in 3 days. Lots of 30-50lb class fish, (Although fewer every year for some strange reason) Dont worry, they dont get sold, a large portion gets wheeled off and donated to food banks, the ones that arent wieghed are fileted... People at food banks want to enjoy striped bass too!

Mid-Atlantic Rockfish Shootout - Fishing Tournament Virginia Beach, VA

MAKAI · 12-06-2009, 05:43 PM

You are making a great argument for catch and release only across the board.
The 10% of the fishermen who catch 90% of the fish rec and com probably are not going to have as strong a say in this as you would like.
But fear not,in the true American way it will be studied and paneled to death and by then it will become a token european style fishery.

numbskull · 12-06-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

Numbskull, sacrifices have to be made both commercially and recrerationally to benifit the striped bass fishery. .

You miss the point, my self-certain friend. Just who is going to dictate those sacrifices and when are they going to occur? Surely you (and others like you) have no intent to limit yourselves, you are too proud of your skill in a dying fishery and still profiting too much from it to want any change. Likewise the recreational scene you describe in NJ/VA seems unlikely to volunteer sacrifice. So where is that taking us? Towards another collapse quite possibly.

Shifting the ASMFC bias toward preservation rather than exploitation is the last hope FISHERMEN have of controlling the process. This SF bill in MA is a real chance to move the regulators in that direction. If the ASMFC fails to shift their bias and the fishery collapses (it may not but I wouldn't bet against it), the CLF, Pew trusts, and federal courts will step in to protect the interests of the public at large from the greed of recreational and commercial fishermen alike. Count on it. It won't be pretty......though I doubt you will care by that point.

striperman36 · 12-06-2009, 07:03 PM

Totally agree with George, ASFMC focuses on commercial exploitation of every last lb. of biomass for every species it manages.
Unless they do so, we are faced with the only option, litigation.

Doublerunner · 12-06-2009, 08:43 PM

Comments like those made by cowhunter just proves the point that the only way to stop the massive killing of stripers is through legislation and serious enforcement.

I have copied cowhunter's posts and will be bringing them to the next meeting at my club and I suggest all those who care about what steps to take in the right direction to save the stock do the same

Back Beach · 12-07-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowHunter

BackBeach out of staters fish commercially for many other species in multiple states. Thats like telling you that you can only fish recreationally and kill your catch in Mass...

True, but there's no reciprocity with the commercial bass fishery, which is what I'm whining about. This is obviously due to the fact none of our bordering states have a commercial fishery except RI, which is nearly impossible for out of staters to participate in.
As for the abuses, some of the Mass guys are obviously just as bad as anyone in the cheating dept.