President Obama's health care--

[Joe]

McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, KFC - They're profiting off contributing to heart disease and diabetes while not offering health care to most of their employees. This is where many of the 50 million without health care are working. The uninsured eventually get sick and the taxpayers pick up the bill. The profits and the jobs are outweighed by the social liabilities they incur. So F-them - they're one click above tobacco companies.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Joe

McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, KFC - They're profiting off contributing to heart disease and diabetes while not offering health care to most of their employees. This is where many of the 50 million without health care are working. The uninsured eventually get sick and the taxpayers pick up the bill. The profits and the jobs are outweighed by the social liabilities they incur. So F-them - they're one click above tobacco companies.

I'm not going to defend fast food joints, but what does the employee without health insurance have to do with the customer eating the unhealthy food?

Don't most people who eat a lot of fast food know the health risks associated with it? Smokers know that what they do is most likely going to eventually kill them. The fat guy chowing down on a 6,000 calorie meal at McD's probably realizes that it's not so good for him when he's breaking a sweat while tring to button his pants.

If people took responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the companies that provide the products, there wouldn't be so many health problems. As a society, we've given people too many excuses and they feel like they can do whatever they want and blame someone else.

[Joe]

Freedom. Choice. Personal Responsibilty. How's all this working out with respect to the healthcare crisis?

What about "Promote The General Welfare?" That is widely interpretted as to work together for the common good.

The fast food industry is contributing to the health crisis on two-fold front: By not insuring employees who in turn become a burden on the health system, while producing a harmful product to society. The fast food industry is clearly detrimental to the common good.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Joe

Freedom. Choice. Personal Responsibilty. How's all this working out with respect to the healthcare crisis?

What about "Promote The General Welfare?" That is widely interpretted as to work together for the common good.

The fast food industry is contributing to the health crisis on two-fold front: By not insuring employees who in turn become a burden on the health system, while producing a harmful product to society. The fast food industry is clearly detrimental to the common good.

Are you advocating putting them all out of business? That's a great idea. Then, the former employees can all go work for convenience stores for minimum wage. Oops, have to close them too because they sell tobacco products. How about supermarkets? Sorry, they sell unhealthy food and cigarettes. Liquor store? How about Walmart? Where do you want to end? Are you going to hire all these people to come and work for you making t-shirts? Will you provide them with a decent wage and benefits?

Think about the people who work at fast food restaurants and retail stores. Most of the employees are younger and work part-time. They don't need health insurance because they are covered by their parents. Many of the older ones have a spouse who has insurance or are on a program like Rite Care. They don't have to go without insurance in most cases. Don't blame an industry for the countries problems.

If your argument is just that the food is unhealthy, you're right. But there are alternatives for people. No one is forced to go to a fast food restaurant. Just like no one is forced to smoke or drink or do drugs. Clearly many people don't want to take personal responsibility for their own actions or their health.

Good luck to you if you feel that the governement is best equipped to decide what's best for you and your family when it comes to your health.

[Joe]

I'm not advocating putting them out of business, but I don't think you can have a discussion about health care without incorporating the causes.
I don't want them slobbering grease over my tee shirts. Plus I've noticed a lot 2X & 3X sizes going out the door - that can't be good for my customers. Fat fishermen dropping dead from heart attacks don't come back in the fall to buy a hoodie.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by Joe

I'm not advocating putting them out of business, but I don't think you can have a discussion about health care without incorporating the causes.
I don't want them slobbering grease over my tee shirts. Plus I've noticed a lot 2X & 3X sizes going out the door - that can't be good for my customers. Fat fishermen dropping dead from heart attacks don't come back in the fall to buy a hoodie.

There are just way too many causes nowadays. Also, people just don't care about their health as much because they are raised to be selfish gluttons. It's o.k. in society to be fat and out of shape. There will always be someone there to tell you that you look great.

People have to decide that they want to live a healthy lifestyle. Most private pay health plans incorporate incentives for people to get in and stay in good shape. My company's plan offers money off gym memberships for employees. Wanna guess how many people take advantage of it? Out of 85 people in our BCBS plans, 4 people use the fitness reimbursement (and that includes me).

Now I see your agenda against fast food. If one of your customers dies from a heart attack, you lose sales. If you can keep em' healthy and alive, you get repeat business. It's harder to get new customers than it is to keep current customers, correct?

Well, I have a great idea for you, Joe. "Fish Hard, Live Short" tee's with a picture of a cheeseburger on the front. Only sell them in double and triple XL and charge a premium. For the rest of your customers, start selling "Fish Hard, Live Long" Muscle shirts for men and sports bras for women. It's a win-win situation for you.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Joe

McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, KFC - They're profiting off contributing to heart disease and diabetes while not offering health care to most of their employees. This is where many of the 50 million without health care are working. The uninsured eventually get sick and the taxpayers pick up the bill. The profits and the jobs are outweighed by the social liabilities they incur. So F-them - they're one click above tobacco companies.

This isn't an issue about Fast Food joints making people fat. It's an issue of fat people making themselves fatter.

In this day, there is no scarcity of evidence that fast food in excess is terrible for you. That going to any of the above mentioned locations for meals regularly is putting you on the fast track to heart disease.

However, people need to take responsibility for their own actions. People know the food is bad for them. For example, I was at a Wendy's once and the guy in line in front of me was easily tipping 300+ on the scale. He ordered 2 large-sized Value Meals, then asked for a diet coke with each. After laughing about the diet coke, I assumed he was ordering for someone else. Until he sat down with both and finished them within 5 minutes.

I don't need the government to tell me what's good for me, and what's not good for me. All I need is the government to regulate companies so that they cannot be deceitful as to the contents of their food. *Then* I can make decisions for myself.

This is like the person who successfully sued McDonald's after she spilled coffee on herself because it was too hot.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I don't need the government to tell me what's good for me, and what's not good for me.

But big government is going to tell a lot of us what we can and cannot
do when Health-Care is approved.

The Pentagon is already saying that military personnel should not be allowed
to smoke. Like that is dangerous compared to training for battle and being
in an active military zone.

Where is the freedom of choice?

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

The Pentagon is already saying that military personnel should not be allowed
to smoke. Like that is dangerous compared to training for battle and being
in an active military zone.

Where is the freedom of choice?

Could be when you consider the respiratory ramifications that come with smoking and the decreased oxygen uptake capable by the lungs. I'd prefer our soldiers to be of the utmost physical capabilities and smoking with prevent that.

Not to mention that the military is their employer and pays the bills for their medical. Employers are being allowed to discriminate against smokers, why should the military?

There is no freedom of choice in the military.

[Joe]

My father was a lifer in the Navy. He saw some bad stuff even in peacetime - lots of training deaths and severe injuries.
There's a big tobacco culture in the military, it's going to be a tough one to break. I think if you can serve, you should be able to have a beer and some cigarettes regardless of your age, or whether or not it pisses off the Muslim population.
The Pentagon should concentrate on making sure all humvees are armored and that each serviceman has adequate body armor before dictating lifestye.
Let the military provide services to help vets quit after their tours are over if, they're still alive - active servicemen have more immediate concerns.

[justplugit]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Employers are being allowed to discriminate against smokers, why should the military?

JD, correct me if I'm wrong, but i thought employers required their employees to smoke outside, not require them to quit?

Joe i agree. While I'm not a smoker, i believe that as an American putting your life on the line for your country you should have the choice.

If employees of the military are not allowed to smoke for health reasons, then people signing up for Govt. Health Care shouldn't be allowed either for the same reason.

The Govt. taking away choices, with the coming of Health-Care, and deciding what is good for you ,is just beginning.


Make sure you wear your mittens in the winter.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by justplugit

JD, correct me if I'm wrong, but i thought employers required their employees to smoke outside, not require them to quit?

An employer can fire you for just about anything, as long as it is not directly related to you being in a protected class. In Massachusetts, if they fire you within 90 days of being hired, an employer can fire someone without having to worry about paying for Unemployment benefits.

Here's a story from 2006. Nothing has changed since then:
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news...91/detail.html

If employees of the military are not allowed to smoke for health reasons, then people signing up for Govt. Health Care shouldn't be allowed either for the same reason.

I completely agree. I don't care what people do in their private lives, until it affects my wallet or quality of life. Now, considering the long-term health care costs for smokers, people smoking in the military or any other government job is costing me money in increased health insurance costs for those people.

And I still believe soldiers smoking can become a possible risk due to respiratory issues.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

An employer can fire you for just about anything, as long as it is not directly related to you being in a protected class. In Massachusetts, if they fire you within 90 days of being hired, an employer can fire someone without having to worry about paying for Unemployment benefits.

The 90 day period is called "Employment at Will" and it's true that an employer can terminate an employee for any reason or no reason at all during that period. But, a person can still be eligible for unemployment benefits. The first 90 days is for all intents and purposes a "probationary period". If someone leaves a job for a new one and then gets laid off by the new employer after 60 days, they can collect unemployment benefits.

The smoking thing is becoming more popular with employers, especially cities and towns. Firefighters in many towns aren't allowed to smoke because being exposed to toxic substances and smoke as part of someone's job raises the risk of lung disease. Insurance for risky jobs is more costly than insurance for some lazy goof sitting at a desk visiting fishing forums all day.