Waterboarding

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Getting into a debate about abortion is like getting into a debate about religion, cyclical and boring.

debating the slaughter of millions of innocent children- THAT'S BORING.

That's how arguments about morals always go. What one person finds immoral, there will always be another that finds it moral. THAT'S WHAT TED BUNDY SAID.

What's annoying to me is that abortion really has absolutely nothing to do with Waterboarding. Abortion is a moral issue, waterboarding is a legal issue.

BUT...waterboarding three dirt bags....now that's a "legal issue" that the left can really get up in arms about .....weird.....

wait...I though torture was a moral issue??? "WE DON'T TORTURE"...remember..we only dismember....not terrorists of course...the question with waterboarding is if in fact, it is actual torture...on the scale of possible torture methods it seems to be WAAAAYYY down on the worst that could be employed....bordering on...oh, I don't know....ENHANCED INTERROGATION..and apparently , at the time a perfectly acceptable way of eliciting information for a host of dem. lawmakers..that was, until they could make it a political issue...keep separating law and morality when it's convenient for you

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

BUT...waterboarding three dirt bags....now that's a "legal issue" that the left can really get up in arms about .....weird.....

wait...I though torture was a moral issue??? "WE DON'T TORTURE"...remember..we only dismember....not terrorists of course...the question with waterboarding is if in fact, it is actual torture...on the scale of possible torture methods it seems to be WAAAAYYY down on the worst that could be employed....bordering on...oh, I don't know....ENHANCED INTERROGATION..and apparently , at the time a perfectly acceptable way of eliciting information for a host of dem. lawmakers..that was, until they could make it a political issue...keep separating law and morality when it's convenient for you

Well, it has become very apparent that you've paid zero attention to anything I have said previously.

First, Waterboarding has never been a *moral issue* for me. I have repeatedly stated, "If they broke the law, then they should be prosecuted."

Second, Waterboarding has already been *defined* as torture by the US and other countries. "Enhanced Interrogation" is merely a euphemism. A politically inaccurate term developed so that politicians can refer to the actions without saying "torture"... and the American public has so far been stupid enough to go along with it. Looks like you've taken the bait hook, line and sinker as well.

I don't separate law and morality when it's convenient for me. I've been quite explicit that this whole issue is a legal one. Maybe you should look back at previous posts in this very thread once in a while. *You're* the one conflating the matter.

It's funny. I've never mentioned my opinion of abortion before but you assume my position on it because I think people in the Bush Administration should be tried for ordering torture.

Your massive level of ignorance is amazing. Pull the shroud from your eyes and take a step outside of your bubble. Don't bother replying to any more of posts by me with the expectation of a response because I'm done with you. Trying to have an intelligent conversation with people like you is impossible, with your verbal diarrhea. It's like you take a thousand random subjects, throw them in a hat and pull one out to use as a rebuttal, regardless of the subject.

[fishbones]

What is the world coming to? She has been very outspoken about prosecuting Bush Administration members for torture. Now, Nancy Pelosi approves of waterboarding?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120801664.html

This is all very confusing.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by fishbones

What is the world coming to? She has been very outspoken about prosecuting Bush Administration members for torture. Now, Nancy Pelosi approves of waterboarding?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120801664.html

This is all very confusing.

Nah, it's not confusing at all. Just displays the point that Pelosi is a complete, unethical moron. She demonstrates one opinion behind closed doors because the public won't see it, yet was outspoken about prosecuting the Bush Administration because it was the cool thing to do.

Corrupt pieces of Sh&t. I'm going fishing....

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Corrupt pieces of Sh&t. I'm going fishing....

good luck buddy, hope ya get a big one

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

good luck buddy, hope ya get a big one

Thanks. Hooked into two shad tonight. Came close to landing one, but the ride is all that really matters.

Man those fish are a blast on ultra-light freshwater gear.

[fishbones]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Nah, it's not confusing at all. Just displays the point that Pelosi is a complete, unethical moron. She demonstrates one opinion behind closed doors because the public won't see it, yet was outspoken about prosecuting the Bush Administration because it was the cool thing to do.

Corrupt pieces of Sh&t. I'm going fishing....

That's why I like you, JD. You don't blindly stick to the party affiliation bs and can recognize that there idiots on both sides. Good luck with the fishing. Let me know if you have any luck.

[spence]

Johnny, you really stepped in it when you said this was a legal and not ethical issue...wow, I thought you were smarter than that.

As for Scott's running non sequitor, last time I checked how we train our troops and how we handle prisoners wasn't covered under the same jurisdiction. That is unless Scott thinks of our troops as potential terrorists

As for Pelosi, there seems to be a lot of questions as to what they were actually briefed on. I'd wager they didn't do their homework and simply went along with what was being proposed considering this was right after 9/11. Not that they could have done anything about it, in these secret briefings they can't even take notes to have an aid do a detailed legal review.

That being said, assuming they were briefed, select members of Congress are certainly responsible for either not providing oversight or being hypocritical.

-spence

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

Johnny, you really stepped in it when you said this was a legal and not ethical issue...wow, I thought you were smarter than that.

Again, this is where the misconception lies... I've stated over and over again that my opinion with regards to anyone being prosecuted lies in the legal aspect of things. The entire issue at hand lies within the legality or illegality of waterboarding being ordered. Regardless of the issue being moral or not, people cannot be tried for immoral acts if those acts were within the bounds of the law.

However, it is my belief that the actions were outside of our domestic law and also outside international law, and as such, people must be held accountable for the actions that took place.

When I state that "the waterboarding issue has never been a moral one", it is with regards to the discussions of Bush Administration officials being brought up on charges.

While I've never been explicit in my moral opinion of waterboarding, reading my first few posts in this thread should yield a sufficient understanding of where my opinion lies.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by spence

As for Pelosi, there seems to be a lot of questions as to what they were actually briefed on. I'd wager they didn't do their homework and simply went along with what was being proposed considering this was right after 9/11. Not that they could have done anything about it, in these secret briefings they can't even take notes to have an aid do a detailed legal review.

That being said, assuming they were briefed, select members of Congress are certainly responsible for either not providing oversight or being hypocritical.

-spence

I listened to a couple of Pelosi's public statements regarding her knowledge of the matter. Now, I am only speculating but, the way she articulates some of the things she has said and the way she punctuated certain statements gave me the impression she was overcompensating. Listening to a few minutes of her talking about the matter made me feel like she knew exactly what was going on and is now trying to backtrack on the actual events to keep her nose clean.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Well, it has become very apparent that you've paid zero attention to anything I have said previously.

First, Waterboarding has never been a *moral issue* for me. I have repeatedly stated, "If they broke the law, then they should be prosecuted."

Second, Waterboarding has already been *defined* as torture by the US and other countries. "Enhanced Interrogation" is merely a euphemism. A politically inaccurate term developed so that politicians can refer to the actions without saying "torture"... and the American public has so far been stupid enough to go along with it. Looks like you've taken the bait hook, line and sinker as well.

I don't separate law and morality when it's convenient for me. I've been quite explicit that this whole issue is a legal one. Maybe you should look back at previous posts in this very thread once in a while. *You're* the one conflating the matter.

It's funny. I've never mentioned my opinion of abortion before but you assume my position on it because I think people in the Bush Administration should be tried for ordering torture.

Your massive level of ignorance is amazing. Pull the shroud from your eyes and take a step outside of your bubble. Don't bother replying to any more of posts by me with the expectation of a response because I'm done with you. Trying to have an intelligent conversation with people like you is impossible, with your verbal diarrhea. It's like you take a thousand random subjects, throw them in a hat and pull one out to use as a rebuttal, regardless of the subject.

very touchy for someone who himself can be quite annoying
cranky know it all
I went a fished the end of the drop while you were writing all of that and now have some filleting to do, you should forget politics for a while and fish a little and relax......you seem uptight...

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by scottw

very touchy for someone who himself can be quite annoying
cranky know it all
I went a fished the end of the drop while you were writing all of that and now have some filleting to do, you should forget politics for a while and fish a little and relax......you seem uptight...

I'm not touchy at all. However, you've made it quite apparent that you pay zero attention to anything people say, make nonsense points, and try to relate topics that don't even have the slightest relationship to each other. Then you try to accuse me of separating morals and legality as I see it fit, when I've never implied any opinion about morals.

I'll be fishing all weekend.

[scottw]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

I'm not touchy at all. However, you've made it quite apparent that you pay zero attention to anything people say, make nonsense points, and try to relate topics that don't even have the slightest relationship to each other. Then you try to accuse me of separating morals and legality as I see it fit, when I've never implied any opinion about morals.

I'll be fishing all weekend.

it sounds like you know that I'm right and just can't deal with the massive blow to your world view...

what happened to "I'm done with you?"

heh..heh..gotta have the last word eh' Johnny?

that's ok, you just keep pontificating ...hey are we going to put all of the members of our military in jail for breaking the law when they used waterboarding to train our troops? we need to be consistent...

why did Obama feel the need to ban waterboarding in 2009 if it was already illegal? and immoral??

why is the defense department refusing to comment on whether it's still used for training purposes?

Nancy Pelosi is a victim of Botox poisoning..too much of that stuff makes you crazy and she goes through a lot!