One Scientist's Take On It

[BasicPatrick]

Originally Posted by numbskull

So just how, exactly, would you propose making striped bass a gamefish if, in fact, that is what the majority of fishermen in the state want? Haven't legislatures in other states made this same decision? What bad has happened as a result?

I do not think even close to half the fishermen want gamefish status of any kind and just for the record it's not jsut the fisherman's choice. fish are a public resource and here in the US all of the public get's a say...in theory anyway.

First of all to me...and the people in Florida that first created the term when used in fisheries management "Gamefish Status" means no harvest of any kind, commercial recreational etc.

That being said, to effect some of the measures in the bill, the road to take would depend on what measure you want to accomplish.

To stop the harvest of the MA Commercial quota
You would have to lobby the members of the ASMFC to initiate a managment action or initiate a rule making petition with all the data, science and research required or find a loophole to file a suit to force a change to the S-B Management Plan. I say this because even if MA passes a law and ends commercial asale of S-B, MA can either move those fish to the rec catch (as is done in New Jersey with the third or trophy fish program) or the ASMFC will redistribute those fish in future years. In theory a change would have to be made to the Atlantic S-B Management Plan to allow each state do what it wants with it's allocation of fish even if it means not harvest.

To get a slot limit in MA one would have to lobby either DMF or the MA Marine Fisheries Advisory Commission for a management action, once again if you want success you need to have the science etc in order. The process then goes on as normal with public hearings etc etc.

I will tell you that about 5 years ago when the 2 @ 28" was proposed, MSBA hosted a hearing on the issue. MSBA was the very lone voice calling for 1 @ 28" & 1 over 40" which is a slot that has a great deal of conservation value according to the analysis. For the record there were very few letters outside of our letter campaign supporting a slot of any kind. The VAST majority of anglers wanted 2 @ 28".

The particular slot in the SF bill is horrible when it comes to mortality. Think about it in simple terms. MA is already the largest S-B fishery. This bill will make it legal to take a lot of the fish at places like Buttermilk Bay, Scorton Creek and every bridge and estuary etc. Every ethnic, poor, young and all manner of fishers will easily be able to harvest a lot of what we now call "shorts". MA mortality will increase by hundreds or per cent...I didn't make that guess up...a member of the ASMFC S-B Technical committee did. The amount of short fish which will be HUGE is then extrapolated. The guesstimate is that we would be no more than three years from a coastwide problem because of the pre spawn removals.

I heard a voting member of the ASMFC talking at a lunch break at the last ASMFC meeting. His comment was that if the MA legislation passes then there truely will be Gamefish Status in a few years, probably no commercial harvest coastwide and 1 fish over 40" or so.

I know I am going way beyond your Question Numby...Bottom line is there are ways to tighten up the rules on S-B and this bill is far far from one of them.

Let's be honest here...SF knows the process and the only reason they are going this way is they could not get enough support to go through the traditional rulemaking process. The only ones to blame for that are all of the silent or internet only supporters that did not deliver when SF tried the regular process. The majority won then and will win again.

FYI...The bill is sponsored by Rep. Matt Patrick from Falmouth...Last night I was told by an officer of the Falmouth Fisherman's Association that Rep. Patrick has refused requests for meetings by both the Falmouth Fisherman's Assn. and the Falmouth Rod & Gun Club. He won't even meet with his own. I was also told paperwork was in process and a bank account is about to be opened for the committee to oppose his re election. He has hurt himself badly and the local clubs are pissssssssssed..

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

I do not think even close to half the fishermen want gamefish status of any kind....

Curious statement and not likely an accurate perception. Sure, many recreational fishermen may have a vague sense that this is "unfair" or that it represents the first "foot in the door by the environmental Nazis", but if given a choice between watching their main recreational quarry be squandered by twisted, fuzzy, "science", biased fishery managers, and deep pocketed commercial interests (a point we seem to be quickly nearing), I'm pretty sure most would favor legislative action. You disagree?

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

.... and just for the record it's not just the fisherman's choice. fish are a public resource and here in the US all of the public gets a say...in theory anyway.

True of course, and the reason the proponents of this bill are using an economic argument (the validity of which is certainly open to debate) to drive it. Unfortunately very few people (myself included and the general public for sure) lack the economic sophistication to make an informed decision on this.

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

I say this because even if MA passes a law and ends commercial sale of S-B, MA can either move those fish to the rec catch (as is done in New Jersey with the third or trophy fish program) or the ASMFC will redistribute those fish in future years.

Of course this overlooks the obvious fact that the ASMFC makes decisions by vote and if MA switches from their current commercially biased position to a recreationally biased position, the balance of ASMFC decisions for the entire eastern seaboard will shift accordingly. You disagree?

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

Let's be honest here...SF knows the process and the only reason they are going this way is they could not get enough support to go through the traditional rulemaking process. The only ones to blame for that are all of the silent or internet only supporters that did not deliver when SF tried the regular process. The majority won then and will win again.

All true....except obviously the last sentence. The "majority" has never "won" anything with striped bass. The well connected, inside interests have "won", time and time again. It would appear that SF has decided to play their game this time around.....although I agree they will likely fail.

Originally Posted by BasicPatrick

FYI...The bill is sponsored by Rep. Matt Patrick from Falmouth...Last night I was told by an officer of the Falmouth Fisherman's Association that Rep. Patrick has refused requests for meetings by both the Falmouth Fisherman's Assn. and the Falmouth Rod & Gun Club. He won't even meet with his own. I was also told paperwork was in process and a bank account is about to be opened for the committee to oppose his re election. He has hurt himself badly and the local clubs are pissssssssssed..

I live in Falmouth, Patrick, and can confidently say that neither club is particularly representative of the fishermen in town. I do not hear much discussion about this bill at all locally, but it does seem to have become a "hot issue" on the Vineyard (also part of Mr Patrick's district) and the sense I get is that the fishermen on the Vineyard are strongly behind it.

At the end of the day, win or lose, I think this bill will be a good thing for recreational fishermen in MA .....and ultimately for the fish as well.

[clambelly]

At the end of the day, win or lose, I think this bill will be a good thing for recreational fishermen in MA .....and ultimately for the fish as well.

And some people wonder where the term "fish grab" comes from...
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

[numbskull]

Originally Posted by clambelly

And some people wonder where the term "fish grab" comes from...

Yeah, up to now the guys getting the most have always had it handed to them........for so long, in fact, that they consider it their right. Probably will take some getting used to.