Bailing out GM

[slapshot]

Let them go under. Maybe then we can learn to compete with all the foreign car companies that are succeeding without unionized labor.

[BigFish]

Its survival of the fitest and another company will just buy them out...let it happen!!! Its called capitalism!

[striperman36]

Anybody remember the GM plant in Framingham?

[Slipknot]

Something is behind all the industry leaving the USA and it pisses me off. The road we are headed down is pretty grim.

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

Something is behind all the industry leaving the USA and it pisses me off. The road we are headed down is pretty grim.

Its called moving to the cheapest labor source.
Did you see '60 minutes' Sunday. Dumping of E-Waste in China?
8 bucks a day for hazardous, deadly conditions

The people wanted the work!!! They thought 8 bucks a day to breath noxious fumes, ingest mecury, dioxion, lead was a great wage

[Slipknot]

Originally Posted by striperman36

Its called moving to the cheapest labor source.
Did you see '60 minutes' Sunday. Dumping of E-Waste in China?
8 bucks a day for hazardous, deadly conditions

The people wanted the work!!! They thought 8 bucks a day to breath noxious fumes, ingest mecury, dioxion, lead was a great wage

yes i saw it, pretty sad

I think there is more to it than cheap labor

[striperman36]

Originally Posted by Slipknot

yes i saw it, pretty sad

I think there is more to it than cheap labor

You mean like the exploitation of innocents?

[Joe]

I'm not saying write GM a blank check, ot invest in a doomed company, if that's the case, they should fail. But it would be a shame if when things turned around we find that we could have saved our domestic auto industry if we tried.
This is more than the usual shakeout of weak, uncompetitive companies in the marketplace. Sitting by and letting events play out in times of crisis is not a good idea - that's what Hoover did. You end up with 28% unemployment and the republic teetering on the brink.

[Mike P]

Originally Posted by slapshot

Let them go under. Maybe then we can learn to compete with all the foreign car companies that are succeeding without unionized labor.

Many "imports" are built here in factories where the workforce belongs to the UAW.

[slapshot]

Originally Posted by Mike P

Many "imports" are built here in factories where the workforce belongs to the UAW.

Source?

For the most part, US Toyota and Honda plants are non union. They tend to build their plants in areas where unionized laborers are not found. Attempts to unionize by the UAW have mostly failed. There may be a few unionized plants, but all of the big three plants ARE unionized. And there is a clear difference.

They say the average GM car has $1,500 tied up in health care costs in it. The average Toyota has about $110. The big three are failing. Is entirely the fault of Unions? probably not

[scottw]

Originally Posted by slapshot

Source?

For the most part, US Toyota and Honda plants are non union. They tend to build their plants in areas where unionized laborers are not found. Attempts to unionize by the UAW have mostly failed. There may be a few unionized plants, but all of the big three plants ARE unionized. And there is a clear difference.

They say the average GM car has $1,500 tied up in health care costs in it. The average Toyota has about $110. The big three are failing. Is entirely the fault of Unions? probably not

Total compensation per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That’s a 52 percent differential from Toyota’s (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages + health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59.

[slapshot]

Originally Posted by scottw

Total compensation per hour for the big-three carmakers is $73.20. That’s a 52 percent differential from Toyota’s (Detroit South) $48 compensation (wages + health and retirement benefits). In fact, the oversized UAW-driven pay package for Detroit is 132 percent higher than that of the entire manufacturing sector of the U.S., which comes in at $31.59.

Those are some scary numbers. Pretty easy to see, right there, why the big three cannot compete or even survive for that matter.

[striperman36]

We always joked, when I was part of the group handling the GM benefits systems, that $1200 of every car sold was for benefits.

We had a significant problem in that GM had no way of tracking dependents of insuree's. You got family coverage with no copay, and continued with that benefit regardless of death, divorce, children over 18, etc.

We tried to get insuree's to register dependents during Annual Enrollment but, had little success in getting turnout to do so, we were hindered by the union in communicating to its constituents

[scottw]

As for bailout conditions that require any car company that gets taxpayer money demonstrate a plan for transforming every vehicle in its fleet to a hybrid-electric engine with flex-fuel capability, so its entire fleet can also run on next generation cellulosic ethanol.

There is already an auto company that does this. In addition to sedans, it offers hybrid models in even its largest SUVs. This company is also the industry’s largest investor in cellulosic ethanol production, and every model it makes is flex-fuel capable.

This company’s name? General Motors. Obviously, there’s more to profitability than being green.

[BigFish]

Originally Posted by slapshot

Those are some scary numbers. Pretty easy to see, right there, why the big three cannot compete or even survive for that matter.

Yeah it has nothing to do with the fact that the company execs make an exorbitant salary (way more than they deserve)(not to mention absolutely ridiculous bonuses) and that they expense all these lavish trips and perks and benny's for themselves........but hey......lets US ALL take a hit, bail them out, give them billions with no idea how or when we will get it back.....and then STILL watch them layoff untold numbers of people during their restructuring process! Sure....lets help them!!!

[striperman36]

Why not, we're doing it with the friggin financial organizations.
We are only givin the big 3 25 billion worth from TARP